Veteran Dakota Meyer on Receiving Ibogaine Therapy for PTSD

The Jurogan experience, but it seems like the difficulty of combat is way more intense and way more insane. And obviously, way more intense, way more insane, but way more difficult to overcome and to learn things from. It's like it seems like for a lot of the combat veterans that I talk to, their experiences are kind of like burned in their brain in some way where it's not like, you're sure, I'm sure they're stronger because of the adversity they've been through, but also some of it is too much and it just leaves them shaken.

Yeah, you know, they used to call it shell shock, remember? I mean, that's what they used to call it before it was PTSD. But troops were coming back from Vietnam; they called them shell shocked. I mean, I think that was me for a long time, for sure. I mean, it was me for a long time. Did you get counseling for that? Did you, like, how did you...?

I went to Mexico.

What was in Mexico?

Um, I went down and I did Ibogaine.

Oh, did we talk about that the first time you were on the podcast?

No, I think I did afterwards.

Oh, really? Interesting.

Um, but yeah, I know I went to... How was that?

It gave me my life back. I mean, it gave me my life back! Like, I went down and I just got to the end, and I talked about it in this book, you know? I was going through my divorce. Um, I, gosh, I... did you talk about not knowing what was next?

I mean, literally, you know, just... gosh, I was just... I was melting down, just melting down from the inside. And finally, like, one of my friends looked at me and said, "Hey, I just went and did this. This is the date; you're going. You need to go do this." And at that point, like, you know, I grew up in Kentucky, and I... I mean, I grew up with "weed is bad", right? I mean, all this, right? You know what I mean? And for me, it was just such a... it was just such a... to think that I was gonna go do psychedelics, right? It was just like such a... like it was a moral thing for me, right? I mean, it was a moral moral...

Um, dilemma.

Dilemma, yeah. And, um, but I mean it was all I had left and I knew that for my daughters, I needed to do something.

Can you describe the experience?

Yeah, I mean, I went down and, uh... where did you go to?

Well, I flew into San Diego, and then we just went across the border somewhere. I don't... like, I was like close to Tijuana, a little south of that... like, start with an 'E'. So, um, I don't know where it was, but went down there and, uh, took it... took Ibogain like 8 p.m. at night on Friday, and it kicked in like an hour later.

And it was... it was like I was walking through this... this, um, like gloomy city. I was kind of walking through a gloomy city, like it... like overcast. Does that make sense?

Yeah, and I just remember, like, I went into this one room and it was like... I mean, I could see the street signs and everything. Like, I went in this one room and I walked out on the stage, and there was like all these people in this room. It was like they were going by, like, um... you know, like those old slide shows? Like, they're just spinning by, and I was seeing these people, and I was in there and I just felt this, like, discipline. Everybody was disappointed in me.

And, um, like I see all these people and I just felt like all this disappointment. I was like running around, like, going up to people, like, "Why? Like, what did I do? What can I fix? Like, how can I fix this? Like, what did I do wrong? Like, I'm sorry."

And it was like all these people that... that I just... people in my life, like I could see their faces, people in my life that I've tried so hard to be good enough for. And you just... you hit it. You ain't gonna be good enough for them, right?

And, uh, and so I left that room. I was in there for a few hours, and, um, I left that room and then I was walking through the town and I would go up and I would look at these, like, the, uh... like these fuel gauges. I could see these fuel gauges and they were like... it had 'E' for empty, uh, or yeah, 'E' for empty, and then 'F' would meant like finished, and everything was like this far from finished. It was like I never finished anything.

And then, um, I seen this, like, beautiful ball of light, and I went to it, and in it was like my daughters playing, and I just felt like so much peace.

Um, and then there was like, obviously, like, different moments of... I'll never forget this one moment in it. I, uh, I just, like, I almost like... oh, cause I mean, you could see... I mean, I could like open my eyes. I mean, it was really blurry, but like I was... I was present, right? And I was gonna just ask the doctor, like, I was like, I just don't want to be here anymore. Like, I can't do this.

And, uh, I knew that he was going to say there's nothing I can do about it, so I stayed there and I just remember it breaking my ego. I remember focusing on my... I remember, like, fighting it... just like just realizing that all this was ego. That my ego, just the best way to describe it, was like... it didn't make me like... you know, like when you drink, like you kind of feel numb. This was like my soul. Like, it was like... it was just... it just like... it was like my soul had gone through a workout, like... like a workout on it, right? Like just an ass-kicking workout.

And, uh, it just broke my ego. You know, like, it just... it just showed me so much about my ego. And there was just... I just remember, like at one point, I was like, I don't care. I don't even care anymore. I don't care what people think. I don't care. Like, I'm not gonna live by what people think.

I just... I remember just like... just all I could just say back and forth was I don't care. I don't care.

This is why you were tripping?

While I was tripping. And so, I was on it until from 8 p.m. on Friday night, and I came out of it at like 2 or 3 p.m. on Saturday.

Wow.

And, uh, I came out of it and I was mad at the guy that sent me there. I was so mad at... I was like, I didn't need this. I was like, I didn't need to feel like this. I felt terrible.

Um, why are you mad at him?

Well, because I was like, you know, you... you sent... you told me this is going to help me and I didn't need to see all my problems, right? It kind of like just brought my problems out and made me look at them and realized that I need to do something to change these.

So, why would you be mad at him then?

Well, I was mad because he sent me there and I thought he was going to help me and I felt like it made me worse.

Right in that moment you did?

In that moment. And then I did DMT the next day, 5-MeO, and it was... that was what brought it all together.

Um, the next day we did 5-MeO and I was so, like, I was down, I was depressed, I was, like, upset because it just, like... I just, I was like, gosh, I just didn't need to see all this.

But I don't understand, if you think it's beneficial, why were you upset at him that you did? Why? And why'd you think you didn't need to see it?

Well, what I'm saying is all of it together was beneficial; that that ibogaine by itself wasn't...

The ibogaine?

Well, I mean, no, I think it opened Pandora's box for me, right? Like because it made you think about things.

Yeah, but isn't it better maybe to think about them than to suppress them in the back of your head?

Um, I mean, the experience, like, it just... it was like an ass-kicking, right? Like it was just like... it was like the ultimate ass-kicking, it was miserable. Like I was throwing up.

I’m saying it’s good for you. I'm saying like... but when I put it together with the DMT, and I did the DMT the next day, it brought it all back together, right? Like, you know, after I did the DMT, I'll never forget, like, we... I took, you know, I took the hit of it and I laid back and it was like I was gone through this tube. It was just like this tube, like almost like a water slide, right?

Right, yeah, I've done it.

And, um, you feel like you're in the center of the universe or something, like you don't exist anymore. It was beautiful. It was so beautiful, like the white that I seen was like... there's no white, there's no... the color here that could ever do, like... same, right?

Um, it's so beautiful. I felt so much love; like it was like pure love. It was like how I felt like whenever I met my kids, you know? Like whenever I was there when Hatley was born, when I met Sailor, like the love that I have for them, it was like that but times a million.

You could just feel it; it was like so good. Like it just showed that, like, there is good. And for me, I put it together and it's like it's inside me. Good's inside of us. Feeling good, like those good things are inside of us.

And it’s just our ego that keeps us from feeling and being happy.

So the ibogaine gave you this understanding of all the conflicts that you've caused and whether it's interpersonal with other people or even with yourself by not finishing things, not following through on things?

Yeah, do you think that it was trying to show you that some part of your problems lie in the fact that maybe you don't respect your own efforts? Like when you say you haven't finished things, do you think, like, it was showing you that you don't have a respect for yourself because you don't respect the effort that you put into things?

Yeah, I think it showed me that, like, yeah, I mean, I think it... I think it showed me that... like, yes, I don't, right? Like, I don't... I look at... I look at everything as, well, if you do good, well, that was what you're supposed to do, right? And if you... like the only thing that I've... and I still struggle with it, right? Like, the only thing that I feel is like whenever I mess up, you know? Like, like if I just... I live in this mindset of, well, I can always be better, so I just, you know, like I stay focused on that aspect of it, of like what did I do wrong.

And it’s a hard thing; it's a hard balance, um, because I always want to be better. I always want to be... I always want to be better. I want to give you my best. And, you know, like I... so I think that that was what it kind of showed me, was that, hey, you know, like... like it's okay to, you know, you can do your best and as long as you do your best, that's what matters. As long as your intent is good, that's what matters.

Like, you're gonna mess up; like that's normal. And I think it was like... it gave me, like, I don't know, maybe a little grace on myself of, you know, because I just have this... I have this problem of... I just always want to do more, you know? I always want to do more for people, you know? And it's just... it's like, I don't know, like it's... it plays against me a lot.

You always want to do more for people. Do you always want to do more for yourself as well? Do you always want to do more in terms of, like, the effort that you put towards things? Like when you say you always want to do more, is it just with doing things for people?

I mean, yeah, I mean, like I... I don't... I mean, like the more I can help myself, the more I can help people. You know, like I... like if I could do anything in the world, like, I would take all the pain off of everybody else, right? Like, I don't... I don't want anybody hurt, you know? And I just... I think that everything that I do is about trying to help people, you know? Like that's kind of what I find fulfilling; it's seeing people happy.

Well, that's a beautiful thing, man. I mean, that's a great way to think about life too. If you enjoy making people happy and you know how to make people happy, you know, there are things you can do that can enhance people's happiness.