Watch Expert Reveals: The Secret Market of Million-Dollar Timepieces (Pt.2)

In the year 1900 this little pocket watch cost 250 dollars. Yeah, today it's worth six thousand dollars. Is it a good relative investment? How do you know when you buy this that it is authentic? It's over 100 years old. How do you know with certainty?

I think the modern watch market is gamed in any way, given the information that's shared, which isn't much from the manufacturers, given the way the retailers have these tight relationships with their buyers. I mean, it's ripe for problems, especially in a world of social media. It can sway opinion.

How is the market gamed in your opinion? The skeptics say it is gamed; I say no, it's an open auction, open cry auction. I argue that. Let me give you an example of, um, recently a large collector that had a very large number of Jordans that he collected over a 20-year period brought a huge number to market at once, in one day.

Now, if the market was gamed and you thought that Jordan had somehow achieved these astronomical price appreciations over the last four years, that market would have collapsed with over 20 pieces on the market. That's not what happened; some of them got record prices. So when you, the auction market keeps everybody honest. You know, everybody keeps saying, "Well, I'm not going to buy a Patek, I'm waiting for prices to collapse." Well, good luck; like, that's just not going to happen. There's an insatiable demand for almost every piece, some more than others.

As you well know, the collections come out every year; people scramble, they try and make their decisions early, they put their markers in. The smart collectors ask once—that's it—and they show their indications. Then I tell them, "Shut up, sit and wait."

Now, with so much data supporting the growth in the value of watch collections, why do you think more people aren't looking at watches as an asset class? For example, we've seen other categories fall. We've seen what's happened with .com historically. I've seen different other assets that I won't mention now to collapse. But what about watches? They seem to weather the storm when there's these ups and downs all around. Why aren't more people jumping into the game?

I think over time they will, but the reasons watches never collapse the same way other asset classes is they skip generations. People are proud to wear their fathers' or mothers' watch, and because they skip generations, they have an imputed value of perpetuity. The aftermarket for supporting watches and repairing watches and maintaining watches is a multi-billion dollar industry in itself, ensuring them, everything else.

It's because of the emotional attachment people ascribe to something that a parent owned, and that will be forever. And so what you find later in life is your children start saying, "Well, look, you know we know eventually what's going to happen to you, can we talk about your collection and which ones are going to stay in the family and which ones aren't?" I've actually had that conversation with my kids.

I mean, you can start to see recently something else has happened, and this goes for the pro case of watches. Many of my pieces that women would have never worn are now worn by my wife and daughter. They borrow them all the time—huge 41s and millimeters—and that's part of fashion, part of style. And indeed, they're even buying pieces that are larger now, and women were, you know, originally 36 and under.

So we're seeing a lot of change in the market. But I'm actually thinking that it's a—I’m seeing more and more younger men and women in their early 20s, and I have a very, very large social media base. So I'm constantly in dialogue with them in their early 20s saying, "I want to get a watch of the Red Band; I mean, what brand do you think I should buy first?" And I get right into that dialogue with them.

I always say to them, "Don't borrow money; do not put this on your credit card. If you have a target, find out how much it is, save it, buy it, own it. You'll remember it forever." You know, a lot of that dialogue goes around brands like Tudor, Grand Seiko. There are some amazing omegas that are just collectible and yet affordable.

All up to that, if you have a certain amount of money, let's say five hundred thousand dollars, what percentage of your net worth should be in watches?

Never more than 20%. Okay? And no one watch should represent more than five percent of your net worth ever. If you're buying watches in the millions of dollars, you better have millions of dollars because that's a very—first of all, getting at—getting access to that means you shouldn't be reselling it until you're dead. So that's going to be a long-term asset, like a bar of gold.

But no watch should be more than five percent of your net worth, and watches in total, no more than 20% of your net worth. And I follow that rule like crazy.

You're the first person I think to share publicly an opinion on what percentage of your net worth should or could be in watches, and you've also shared that 5 million is a magic number in your mind.

Yes, when you hit five million dollars, I put it in your words—what happens when you have five million dollars? You have set yourself free for the rest of your life. Um, you have to understand that when you put that money into a watch, it has no yield other than capital appreciation. So, you have to decide what your lifestyle is going to be and what you need on an after-tax basis and by your dividend-paying stocks and bonds to provide for that.

But you can also buy long-term assets, and I recommend watches as one of those—just like gold. Some people like Bitcoin. I mean, there are all kinds of alternative asset classes, and when you think about the context of a portfolio—and I say the same thing, my mother taught me this—if I look at my stock portfolio, which is a huge part of my net worth, no more than five percent anyone's stock, no more than 20% in any one sector.

So I don't own more than 20 tech stocks. In my real estate portfolio, real estate's unique in the sense that some people let it become up to a third of their net worth, but that's also a heavy maintenance cost for all those buildings and condos you own.

So you have to have balance, and you need diversity, no different in the watch collection side of your business. But you get so much camaraderie and so much joy, and you know, I'm going with my wife on a tour of Japan. Of course, I own a Creedor, so I want to see where it was made.

For those of you who would know what a Creedor is—yes, I've toured the factory. Yeah, it's incredible, incredible. And of course, I put it up there in terms of when I wind one of my Pateks and I wind my Creedor; they feel the same to me. So this remarkable workmanship in the Creedor, and of course we're with the Jordan Society.

If you own Jordan watches, you get past three; you can petition the society to join. If you're a real collector, we'll welcome you with open arms, and you can join us all around the world as we pursue our, you know, in watch collecting in horology; that's what we do.

So each of these opens the door to a country club; it really does. And you know, here's another Jordan; I think you've seen—I mean, this is a beautiful piece. It's black because I'm a collector. I mean, Jordan, they only make 900 watches a year, so you have to petition to get it.

I waited two years for this piece. I don’t know if you've seen this, Marin. This is the Tutti Frutti; our good friend Bill put me onto this. Oh yeah, I think there's only six of these. It's a crazy dial. I mean, you know, speak, Marin, very nuts.

The music—which, you know, I think I talked to you about this watch—it's an overseas, so it's not as coveted as, um, you know, a Royal Oak. But since I've been wearing it around the streets of New York, I've had like 20 offers to buy it. Apparently, you can't get these anymore. That dial makes a statement; it's a huge statement. It's rock and roll, baby; right there, that is just gorgeous.

It's a beautiful piece; it's a lot of fun. Uh, this is the one of a kind I talked about that was at the auction last December from Chopard—the Laughing Mexican, Smell of Death. It's just nuts.

That is gorgeous. Is that engraved? Yes, it's hand engraved. There's only one of those; it's an eight-day power reserve. I mean, it's a crazy piece; you have to find the hour in the teeth. Wow, it's very good.

So if you have 20% of your personal assets in watches—not you, I'm just saying—one as 200% protects you from authenticity, theft, and all that goes around it, just like keeping them safe day to day.

Well, after you have 50 pieces, you're not going to keep 50 in your home; very few people do. You go to a vault system with banks, and I do that in multiple countries. So I have an inventory control system. I know what's sitting in Switzerland. I know what's sitting in Miami. I know what's sitting here in New York. I know what's sitting in other cities.

I travel with about 17 pieces; that's it. And I insure those specifically. I have arrangements when I am traveling with them that they're in a secure vault. I wear three to four watches a day. I start with a morning watch, I switch at lunch, there's an afternoon piece, and then I decide what I'm going with for the evening. Otherwise, I could never go through my collection.

I mean, what's the point of having a collection? People that buy watches keep them in their box and never bring them out; that's when the watch actually loses its soul. It dies; it dies. It's a dead watch. You haven't shown it respect; it never got out and never saw the daylight. It can't speak to its watch brethren. I mean, that's insane; you have to wear the watch.

That's why—and frankly, I think that the watchmakers know that you're never showcasing the piece, and I think that puts you down at the bottom of the list, in my view. I don't know that with certainty.

But you know this is a different—you've seen this as a Rolex. They don't make that anymore, but that was the original sort of classic all-steel white face Daytona. And then, of course, you can see it again with the ceramic, and I have the white for that too. I mean, everybody wants these pieces; they’re just the hottest watches out there; it's crazy.

But—and with a red band, of course—they're Shark Tank classics. I auctioned my—I had a Daytona that went for over 60,000 for charity with Paul last December. They're all storytelling pieces.

And you know, I—oh, then of course, let's talk about this new edition. Yes, John, um, Aaron, I actually own this now for two and a half hours. I left the meat packing Rolex store where I went to pick this up. I believe it to be only one of three in America. There's one rose gold, there's one white gold, and there's one yellow gold. This is mine, the yellow gold.

I mean, I was expecting something unique because I'd seen so many images of it. This is the puzzle or emoji watch, supposedly a day-date, but it does not display any days or dates. When I first saw this piece, I thought it was an AI hoax and so did everybody else.

I called my contacts at Rolex, and they said, "No, it's no joke." I said, "It has to be; no one would ever approve that at Rolex." I know Rolex. They said, "No, you don't." Now you've been proven wrong; they've done it again. They've kept the classic look with a completely insane new idea for a dial.

Now, if you're a dial guy, you have to have this. I'm very, very fortunate to have one of three. When I saw it for the first time, it blew me away; I thought it was going to be a 10; it's an 11. It's a 36. I have not seen one of these in person because they're not out there.

Yeah, but I'm really struck by the quality of the enamel. Is it true cloisonné enamel? Yes, it's true that each puzzle piece is encapsulated in a gold ring, and that's what pops the cast in the light.

That's all I can see. Sapphire marks the time. I mean, it's a crazy piece. But for Rolex, it's completely shocking, yeah. And so I'm so proud of them to just come out of the left side and just go, "Bang, deal with this."

So now I have a whole new respect for them. I mean, now I'm looking for some—like, this is a crazy dial. Where else can we go with Rolex? I mean, it's got me excited in Rolex like I haven't been in years. I can't wait to wear this on TV tomorrow. I'm all over the networks; I'm wearing this. I think it's going to be nuts.

It's a conversation starter. It is; I think it has a great place in the collection. It's going to be, as soon as I get a red band on it, it's going to be a big hit on Shark Tank.

But I'm not going to wear this with a red band often just because I have to do it for continuity on Shark Tank. This President band is just beautiful with it, and you commented you love the President bracelet, which is the most classic identifiable bracelet. It's my favorite of what Rolex has made; classic, and it's never going to change. It's just spectacular.

I mean, there's—I have so much respect for the history of Rolex keeping that look intact decade after decade after decade, and yet experimenting with something like this has been great. I mean, just—it just reinvigorates me.

When I left the store, I said, "Look, you guys keep doing what you're doing; I'll just keep buying. Now get back to work." Now, each of these watches has a wonderful story; personally, they have also an economic story. As an asset, they're all appreciating in value; they've all gone in the right direction up.

They all have boxes and papers, which I'm sure you have storage. Oh, that is—you know, I think about—I didn't even talk about the loose from Patek. I mean, this is also incredibly hard to find. Oh, you don't see those? No, you don't.

But you know why? It's got a red band—a factory Red Band. I got down on my knees and begged for this piece because I've been chasing Patek for 15 years to let me put red bands. As you know, that never happens. In Asia, they released a couple of pieces once with a red band; this was a North American release.

I just had a—I only asked once, but with such passion, they must have felt the electricity. A red factory band? Are you kidding? And who knows? Maybe that red strap was somewhat inspired by what you have been doing.

I like to think I'm part of that movement. I mean, you know, red makes dials pop, and it just really works with a black suit, and I wear a uniform. I'm wearing the same suit on Shark Tank for 15 years; I have 25 of these suits.

It's with all the moving parts in your collection—and I mean that as a pun—do you think there's a place for physical assets to be tied to NFTs? For example, it's a topic we've discussed before. Where do you stand on that question today?

I would very much like that digital documentation, but I have come to the realization, as I know you have, John, in talking with every single brand about NFTs, this is not going to happen overnight. It's going to take decades, and a standardization will take decades.

The use of NFTs—I have now come to the conclusion, the idea of trading an NFT away from a watchmaker, zero chance of happening because I remember having this conversation with FP Jordan himself, and he just looked at me in horror.

They can see it as a methodology for ensuring the watch, authenticating the watch as a form of travel papers with it. But the idea that you're going to get an NFT that you can trade away from the original piece? I don't think we're going to see that in our lifetimes.

It's artist rights question—oh, it's beyond at large rate, the idea that the soul leaves the watch and somebody else owns it. Yes, I've seen the look of horror on the watchmaker's faces; they just look at me and say, "What are you talking about?"

It just seems increasingly obvious that someone's going to get it right of how to tie each of these watches to something in Web 3.0. It might not be called an NFT, but it's going to be some sort of digital pair, and I can't wait to see who gets there first and how that develops.

I'd love to be part of it, and I've tried to invest in it, and I want to be part of it. I think it'll be a very interesting part of ensuring a watch because you could actually, with the NFT, say, "Here's my location. I only ensure the 17 I'm traveling with. I don't need to ensure the rest; they're in vaults under the streets of Zurich."

I mean, good luck trying to steal those. But my point is, I want to have these insured for something that happens, and I want them insured that their resale value—today's market. And so we have not achieved that yet in the insurance industry. We have a lot of work to do, particularly when you're talking about a piece like the Emoji or the loose, you know, from Patek. I mean, or any FP Journe.

I mean, when I talk to insurance companies about FBJourne, they're saying, "We kind of get our head around that capital appreciation." Like, when they talk to Jordan about replacement, he said, "There is no replacement; I'm not making that watch again, and I'm done." Anytime you do a one of a kind, this is irreplaceable; yeah, there's never again one of one—one of one.

So when I talk to insurers, they say, "No, we're not insuring that; you just should never wear that anywhere," and that breaks my heart. So here at collectibility, we've identified and defined four different types of collectors.

I want to tell you what those four types are, then I'd like you to tell me which one you think you are most.

Number one, the treasure hunter. Number two, the speculator. Number three, the accumulator. Number four, the researcher. Which one are you?

Wow, is there such a thing as being both? Yes. Yeah, I think I'm the accumulator and the researcher. I have no interest in speculating on watches. I'd be honest with you; I don't know what I paid for these; I really don't. I don't remember because I don't care.

I just know that I didn't borrow money to buy them. I do know what they're worth every day because I keep that for insurance purposes, and I mark-to-market like I do every asset I have in my office. We mark to market our entire portfolio. We run money for the State of North Dakota; we do all that every day; it's automated.

That's when I started to notice as an accumulator the capital appreciation was going crazy in the last four years, and I started calling around saying, "What's going on here, and is it a fake market? Is it a manipulated market?" An uncomfortable conclusion: it's not.

So I'm going to say accumulator and researcher because, boy, am I deep in the weeds on new watchmakers and, you know, one-of-a-kinds; I have another one of a kind coming—a incredible piece from FP Journe. I'm so excited again, waiting years for it.

My trouble is I'm going to die one day. This is a big problem.

Well, then you're taking them with you; I think you've already settled then.

Yeah, so what's your dream watch? Is there one piece that keeps you up at night that someday will be coming your way?

I would say right now what I'm really anticipating is that Jordan—I’ve been waiting for Vertical Tribunal—although I have been looking at his Francis Ford Coppola. And we are, I mean, that piece—have you seen that piece? The hand?

Yes, yes. Yeah, he's only making three a year of those, so you know when you know a watch is close to being completed—the anticipation. It’s Carly Simon's song, "Anticipation." That's what's happening with the Jordan, so right now that's on top of mind for me.

I'm planning on receiving it. I'm going to go to Miami for it; you know, I generally do social media when I'm receiving the watch, and we put it out there for people to see and enjoy. That's pretty on my mind.

But I have to admit this Rolex has got me just in a tizzy, if that’s a good word. I'm going to be wearing this for a while because it's just too cool.

I mean, there's nothing like this in my collection, and so it's going to be a—listen, you got to add it to him; we're saying it again. They've really knocked it out of the park with this thing.

I think that is now my favorite modern Rolex.

I think—and I would agree with you because it just—until you hold it and you feel it and you see it and the way it pops, the way that they've done a masterful job on that dial—whoever made that dial, I mean, free hot dog for that guy; it's fantastic.

What about vintage? Where do you stand on collecting vintage watches, and do you think that could be your next step?

Well, I did buy a world timer, a vintage World timer 175 edition. Very complicated getting that piece. I just love the dial. They stopped making it, as you well know, that black dial.

I just went through so much work to find that piece, and that was sort of my foray into vintage Patek. I've been buying vintage Omega for quite a while and Cartiers because they were early watches for me.

And I had a couple of my collections stolen, so I have to replace them one at a time. I know all the pieces, and I've searched the world and the Interpol records and everything else. There's something sheer evil about stealing people's watches—I mean, it's just—and I've had it happen to me twice.

So, you know, inside jobs and everything else, and so now I really concern myself about my security systems. You're going to have a really hard time stealing my watches, whoever you are out there; they're just never where you think they are, and that's, you know, how it works.

People think they're going to go to my home and find a watch? Never.

It's a good reminder that collectors should insure their watches, protect their watches, and don't assume the assumable.

Yeah, exactly. But when I ask about vintage, kind of I go back a little further. I have this piece here, so let's go back 125 years, particularly pocket watches.

Now, what do you—what are your thoughts and feelings when you hold a watch such as that in your hands, which is significantly older than what we have here?

Yes, I mean, by miles, but it's remarkably well built and how beautiful it is, which goes to the legacy of what Patek has always been—master watchmakers. But I have never found my way into pocket watches—not yet, anyways—because I'm so down the road of, you know, traditional watch collecting.

But I understand why people get this virus too.

And in the world, everybody knows you're the guy for this because how do you know when you buy this that it's authentic if it's over 100 years old? How do you know with certainty?

And that's the beauty—the extract from the archives.

Yeah, and so you are the archive guy. Well, Geneva has them; you pay them 500 Swiss francs. They give you movement number, case number, describe the dial in detail, and you have essentially a historic NFT on your hands.

So that's—but only you—I mean, I would never buy a piece like this unless you were involved because who else can you trust?

I mean, it's sort of—imagine you're a major collector and you get duped.

Yes, I mean, that just—that would devastate me. That's one of the reasons I'm so concerned about, like, you know, they say 10% of Daytonas in the secondary market are fake.

Like, I don't have a secondary market Daytona, and what's incredible— you could take any of these to service at the respective companies and you're going to find out, "Well, you know, they're all 100% correct."

What's amazing with these—you could take them to Patek Philippe; they'll service anything from 1839. And that's when you find out if everything is correct.

And will they authenticate prior to purchase? Can you do that?

No, that does not exist.

So you—is there any way—so how do you get someone to open it and look at it if it's a piece you don't know?

In other words, what concerns me is all of a sudden a very important piece shows up on the market, like a John Lennon Patek. Nobody knows where it is. I would buy that watch if I could, but I would want to know with certainty that it was his because everybody's going to fake that piece.

Exactly. So how do you authenticate? And that's where collectibility comes in; it's knowledge, scholarship, connections, forensics. And I want to put the F first for forensics, right?

It would be very hard to fake that watch, for example, because we know when it was sold, where it was sold, we know where it is. There are a lot of things that you need to do.

You know where the John Lennon is?

I will comment on that—not off camera.

Absolutely kidding.

Interesting. All right, that's my first no comment on—yeah, I lost something here, so stay tuned.

But I want to talk numbers on this. So in the year 1900, this little pocket watch cost 250 dollars. Yeah, today it's worth six thousand dollars. Is it a good relative investment?

What year was it?

200. Yeah, I saw 124 years ago. I would say yes, for this reason. It's probably going to start accelerating in appreciation as more people get into that.

So you're buying it for—that's a relatively benign acceleration. You've probably calculated the IRR in that; it's low.

You can't look at it like that in the sense it's like buying gold, right? Where will it be in 20 years?

That's the question.

Yeah, and I would bet as more people get into pocket watches that Patek would be the gold standard, period, for pocket watches.

I mean, I'm trying to think of another brand that is more coveted than that, but it's just the demand for pocket watches is a smaller vertical; it's a smaller vertical.

It's a very small—yeah, there's probably 25 people in the world that control 80% of the really—the highest of the highest, the highest.

Yeah, so all right, we're in the home stretch now. Have you ever had any horological regrets, any mistakes that you've made?

I have made mistakes. To say that I've never made mistakes, I've let impulse buy pieces that I'm not—that I'm not proud that I own. That never happens to me anymore, but I learned as a young buckaroo that you do need the research piece.

You do need the emotional connection with the dial; it needs to feel right. I've talked to many collectors about this. You know, I—for a while, was having a hard time getting my head around something like the Eye of the Tiger from Rolex or even the loose from Patek because it included diamonds and emeralds and other. It took me about 10 years, and now I really appreciate the artsmanship of creating pieces like this, and I wear them proudly, and I love them for their just celebration of color and everything else.

But it took a while, and so you better feel good about what you're doing because you're spending a lot of money, and you're making an emotional connection.

And you want to wake up—my biggest challenge every day is I go through the portfolios: which 17 for this month? Which ones—or which 17 for this week or which 17 for tomorrow? You know, when I go to Shark Tank next week, I'm going to arrange for security; we're going to go through with wardrobe.

Let's look at 100 and pick seven—like, think about how hard, stressful in a way.

Well, they all have to be different. Okay? They all have to have red bands; they all have to be unique, and they can't look the same. So I'll come up with something amazing, but that is work.

So let's talk a little bit about Shark Tank and horology. My kids and I love watching Shark Tank, and we've been watching you for years. It's 15 seasons now, right? It's just incredible.

But the only horological story I could think of—and I curse Shark Tank to this day. There's something called Clocky. There was a woman that came on; her name was Gauri Nanda, who made this thing called Clocky, which is an alarm clock that rolls on the floor, makes all these noises and lights. You have to chase it in order to get out of bed.

Literally, my youngest daughter has one; every morning, this is what starts my day—like a Shark Tank for that.

So thanks for that; a successful product, a great product. The magic of having 100 million people see your product in syndication on Shark Tank because you sell a lot of stuff. Yes, I mean, it's—it—nobody ever expected this to happen. It's a remarkable platform.

Now, have you ever been pitched a watch company on the show?

Yes, we have. Yes, yes, we have. Yes, we have. I believe that one didn't air because, as I pointed out, it was bastardizing watches.

Okay, which to me is unforgivable. I think it's just—you just can't do that. I mean, you're disrespecting the maker and the brand. What are you doing? Like, if you ever want to become a collector and you're opening the piece yourself with some rogue mechanic, you're finished.

Do any of the other sharks understand watch collecting or watch culture?

I think the one that's closest to, um, would be, uh, Herjavec. He is a big, big Rolex collector and is respected as one, but the diversity of, uh, of dial? No, I mean, you know, everybody always says to me, "Please get me a Rolex."

I mean, I hear that every day, and I get it, but that’s not—I’m not—I mean, Rolexes are so important, and they’ve achieved to get that level of brand globally—it's just—but to collect watches is to respect all the makers.

Now, have you ever noticed a nice watch on a guest on the show that's pitched to you?

Many times, and I'm starting to notice red bands on them.

Ah, that's clever. Yeah, it works.

Yeah, that works. If you're listening out there, sucking up works. That's fun.

Now, just in your business dealings, like in life, do you notice watches in the boardroom when you walk in? Do you notice what people are wearing?

That's—I don't notice them; it's the first thing I look at.

Yes, I—if I can't see the piece, I say, "Can you lift up your cuff? I want to know what you're wearing." It tells me everything about you.

Yes, everything. And so if you don't think wearing a timepiece isn't part of who you are as a person and a brand, you're crazy. I mean, your watch is an extension of who you are and your personality, and you should think about that.

That's why I've changed so many times a day. What am I feeling like for lunch? Where am I going for dinner? What's happening at breakfast meeting? What do I want to show when I'm on this TV show or that TV show? This is the whole deal.

It's the storytelling of watches; this is why I'm into this. And when you know—and if you know there's a very popular electronic watch out there, and if that's all you got? Well, shame on you.

I've recently watched your—well, this, I think it was eight months ago. Harvard Business School asked you to speak, and it was one of, I think, the most engaging conversations you had with a group of highly intelligent, highly motivated students.

And then some of them actually pitched for you, but you told—and gave them some advice on a pitch, and that's the fact that you're watching them; you're looking at eye contact.

Yeah, but now you're telling a number two. What if Kevin O'Leary's secret hints of success? Your watch says everything about you.

So eye contact in your watch.

Yeah, but if you only have one chance to make a first impression, and the timepiece itself says everything, and it also tells you what kind of a person you are.

I know the difference between a Patek person and an AP person and a Rolex person or a Journe person. My goodness, you want eclectic people.

Like, I mean, my goodness. So if I see a Journe on you, you could be a brain surgeon; you could be an astrophysicist; you could be an artist; you could be a painter; you know, you could be a guitarist.

I mean, that company goes out of their way to diversify who owns their pieces. Nobody hits me up more than for Assurance, and all I can do is bring them to meet the Journe people.

Um, I'll tell you a great story; he's probably going to kill me for telling you this, but Jay Sures, who is probably one of the most renowned agents in Hollywood UTA, if not the number one guy, particularly in the news industry, got into watches.

And he had them before I met him, but I passed the virus to him, and he got diseased, and he started seeing my Jordans out in Hollywood, and he just—just went crazy. He was calling me four times a day.

I said, "Look, Jay, it's not going to happen; you can't just march into a Jordan boutique and say, ‘I'm Jay Sures; I want to join.’ They don't care who you are; they don't care how much money you have; it just doesn't matter."

He said, "I'm Jay Sures; I'm the best agent in the world; I have to meet FP." I said, "You've got to be kidding me. Like, he is—he doesn't care; it doesn't matter."

He said, "I just want to meet the man that makes these watches." I said, "Okay, Jay, I'm in New York; I'm going to the boutique tomorrow."

He's flying in from Paris— we're doing a dinner; I happen to be on the street outside; I'll make the introduction because you're not getting in the boutique.

Son of a gun, he was waiting outside on the street.

Oh my goodness!

He owns two Journes today! See, a little panhandling goes a long way. You know, he made an appeal that they're underrepresented in the media industry of managing media—not stars. They've got plenty of people on Journe, but the people that manage the industry.

I believe Jay Sures is the first to have that caliber of manager to own two Journes, and FP respects him for that.

So now he has found his way into being a Journe collector. This is what I'm talking about. This is the magic of collecting and the brand and the history and the person and the story. This is what it's all about—human connection.

That's it!

Well, Kevin, I can't thank you enough for spending this time with us today. I was able to ask so many questions; I have more for you afterwards, which we cannot—we're going to talk about the John Lennon Patek.

Yeah, so the rest of you have to go away, and I'm going to find out for this conversation. This conversation is going to continue.

Great, thank you.

Congratulations! I really enjoy success.

Fantastic! Thank you so much; always a pleasure. We could talk watches for two days in a row.

Let's do this again.

The pizza! That's it.