Anne Finucane talks about supporting communities through the Covid-19 crisis. | Homeroom with Sal

Hi everyone, Sal Khan here from Khan Academy. Welcome to our daily homeroom live stream! For those of y'all who this is maybe the first time that you're seeing this, you're like, "What is this link on YouTube or Facebook?" This is our way of keeping everyone connected.

When we saw the school closures start to happen—seems like a lifetime ago, but maybe seven or eight weeks ago—we knew that Khan Academy had a unique role to play. We saw our usage go up by a factor of three. We started doing parent webinars, teacher webinars, and we said, "In the time of social distancing, it would also be a way for people to feel connected if we did something like this." So, this is just a form to ask questions, have interesting guests, and make sure that all of you feel supported.

Today, we have a really exciting guest. I'll introduce her in a second, but I do want to give my standard announcement: a reminder to everyone that Khan Academy—we are a not-for-profit organization. We exist because of philanthropic donations, and so if you're in a position to do so, please think about donating to Khan Academy.

I do want to give a special shout-out. Over the last several weeks, when they realized that we were already running at a deficit before the crisis, and the deficit was going to get larger because of this crisis—our server costs, our ability to provide even more supports—they immediately stepped up. First and foremost was Bank of America, that very first weekend when we realized that the school closures were happening, followed closely by Google.org, AT&T, Novartis, and Fastly have all stepped up to support this effort. So, if you as an individual can help support, that is great; and if you are representing a corporation, that is great as well. We still need more help.

So, with that, I'm super excited to introduce our guest. Someone that I've known for a while, who I consider a friend, and I hope she doesn't mind—a mentor. Someone who I've gotten a lot of learning from over the last, you know, almost decade that we've been working together: Ann Fenukin, who's the Vice Chairman of Bank of America.

And maybe a good place to start—and first of all, you know, I hope I'd love to know how you're doing, how you're navigating the crisis. But especially as a leader of an organization that has 210,000 employees, how are you and your team coping with that? What are you all doing to try to support those 210,000 folks?

Well, it's great to be with you, Sal, and thanks for having me. So, it is busy—it's busy for everybody, of course. But at the bank, we are—I’d say 80 percent of the population are working from home, 20 percent are in the office or in the financial centers because we're considered a critical service, so we have to be open. Our doors are open, trading as well as being in the financial centers.

And it's like everybody else—there's a lot going on for everybody. People are trying to keep their kids educated while also getting to work in some way or another, whether it's at home or in the office. Of our 200—you said 210; I think it's 208,000 people—the first thing we wanted them to know is that everyone will be employed for 2020, so that there'll be no layoffs, and that wouldn't be a concern that they would have. If you have child care needs, we're trying to help with that. So, we are picking up the cost of trying to help with child care for everybody, whether they're at home or they're in the office.

Then, making sure people's medical needs are taken care of. This is an extraordinary health crisis. We've never seen anything like it. I don't think there's much to fully prepare us, but as other guests have said, honestly, the financial crisis was maybe a dress rehearsal; 9/11 was another sort of dress rehearsal for this. In each of these cases, you're able to learn something and apply it to the next time. Given your experience here, y'all have been stepping up big time.

I mentioned, you know, I'm not just having you here because y'all are one of our big supporters, but you are—I mean, well for many, many years, and then y'all stepped up even more over this crisis. But this is part of a broader strategy that y'all are trying to do. You know, you announced a significant amount of support for the COVID crisis. How are you—and that's all things that are under your responsibility—how are you thinking about that? Where are you seeing the biggest needs? Where are you trying to help? What problems are you still trying to figure out?

Well, the first thing is probably what are we doing for our customers. Like maybe the first thing is the employees, but I tried to give you a sense of that. For our customers—those that need it—so a lot of people need help in a time like this. They're either—they've lost their job, or they're afraid they're gonna lose their job, or their partner or wife or husband or whoever they're living with is maybe not working.

So, we have offered to our customers—and they can just go on the mobile app and do this—if they need to defer their mortgage payment, their small business loan, their auto loan, their credit card, they can do that with a click. We have had more than a million—like a million two of those deferrals made already, and I'm sure that would continue on for another couple of months. So, that's one very basic thing.

Another is to work with our customers on the CARES Act, the new legislation. So, the new legislation has this program called the Paycheck Protection Program for small businesses. We signed up 400,000 applicants for that PPP program, as we call it, and we have put thousands of people that don't normally do this against that effort, working 24 hours—three eight-hour shifts—to try to help people with signing up for it, getting a loan. And just to give you some stats on that: about 78 percent of those that are signing up are asking for something less than $100,000; more than 75 percent of those have less than 10 people. So, it's really for the small businesses.

I mean truly small businesses. If you look at less than 100 people, it's about 98 percent of the population. So, between deferring payments and signing up for the Payroll Protection Program, those are two very significant ways. And then, what you were referring to is our philanthropic giving. We give away—or we donate—about $250 million a year in philanthropic giving, and we do it at a local level.

So, we try to participate through our Market President group in 90 different markets, giving to affordable housing, food insecurity, to the homeless—you name it. But in this case, we added another $100 million, and the reason we did it is because there are these emergency needs. And actually, Khan Academy was one of the emergency needs where, obviously, we have been supportive for several years. We have a program with you that—called Better Money Habits—that we are crazy about, and we have millions of people that have used it.

But in a case like this, where you're going to be reaching out to schools all over the country and helping teachers and those that are homeschooling their kids get up to speed, you needed money like today. Same as local food banks and homeless shelters and some programs helping people in the emergency medical field, we felt that we needed to do that very quickly and a little less paperwork and a little more haste, if you will.

No, and I have to say, you know, very transparently—I'm not just saying this because we're on the live stream together—but that very first weekend, I remember we had a meeting scheduled with some of your team members, and I was a little late for the meeting. I was like, "I'm so sorry I'm late for the meeting. You know, we're just seeing a 3x rise in our traffic," and, you know, all of this stuff is happening. And they immediately said, "Oh, well, what's going on?" And I said, "Our traffic is 3x. We're trying to do all this thing." And they were like, "Hold on. We've got to be able to figure out some way to help you guys out," because this should be kind of, and it was literally over that weekend.

So, thank you for that! And y'all were the first, and then that helped, I think, other corporations to see the value of supporting this. So, super appreciate that. I mean, there's several really interesting things you touched on. I am intrigued, you know, when you mention the mortgage deferral, and that does feel like the exact right thing to do when you kind of lead with your heart because people are not able to pay their mortgage for reasons outside of their control right now. But what's the conversation like inside the bank? Because on the other side of that, what does it do to the finances of the bank?

What does it do to kind of how those mortgages look? I guess, you know, if you view them as a financial instrument, how do you all handle that balance?

Well, I think we learned a lot out of the financial crisis where we had to apply both humility and tenacity to make our way through that. And as you may recall, there were a lot of foreclosures. There was also a glut of housing on the market. Today, it's very different. First of all, this is a health emergency, not a financial crisis.

Although the finances of the industry and of the country are certainly going to suffer here, so the thinking around this was, "Let’s see if we can help people defer payments for a period of time while the country tries to get back on its feet," with the hope that through these paycheck protection programs, through our deferrals, through all that is being done legislatively on a bipartisan basis, that all of that collectively—and most importantly, the kinds of things that Bill Gates was talking about the other day in terms of coming up with vaccinations and continuing the physical distancing programs until we have that—all of that is to prepare for getting ourselves back in shape.

I have to say that I talked to our research analysts yesterday, and what they are proposing—we're looking at—is we've already had an almost five percent downward turn on our GDP for the first quarter. That quarter was okay until March. It's going to be quite extreme in the second quarter, but the third quarter looks like it's going to stabilize, and then we're going to see a move up in the fourth quarter if we can apply all that we're talking about: the deferrals, the paycheck program, the kinds of activity that the Fed and Treasury are trying to do to keep liquidity in the system—that those companies that are now sort of on the sidelines can come back into business.

And that may be well into the summer, but you know, we're hopeful. Once that happens, the fundamentals of the economy should in large part come back. Doesn’t mean that restaurants that we all know and love aren't going to go out of business; it doesn't mean that some small businesses will have great difficulty. But it does mean, on balance, that we are more hopeful.

So, we see in aggregate probably about sort of the ups and downs I just talked about: maybe a six percent downward trend for 2020 and probably about the same up for 2021. That's super useful, and I want to encourage everyone who's listening—we have team members who are looking at the message boards on YouTube and Facebook, so feel free to put the questions in there.

Get surfaced to myself and Anne, and I will ask as many of these as I can. I'll actually start with one of them, and then I have a bunch of questions for Anne. I want to go a little bit into how she became Anne Fenukin because there's a lot of young people here I think could get inspiration from that. But from YouTube, Andrea R.316 asks, "What are some ways to be money-wise during this pandemic?"

And maybe I'll extend it, you know, money-wise generally.

Well, some of the best money-wise information and advice we have comes from you, Sal—the work that you do with us on Better Money Habits. It's always good to spend within your means, but now you really have to. So there are some benefits right now—I mean interest rates are about zero. So, if you don't run up a deficit on your credit card, if you can try to live within your means, that really helps. I would put off big purchases right at the moment.

You know, mortgage applications are down 40 percent. That's usually a pretty good bellwether of where we're at as a country, but it's different this time in that there are also not a lot of houses on the market for sale, so it's not like it was 10 years ago. There's actually very little on the market for sale on a relative basis. So, I guess what I would say is try to live within your means; don't make big purchases if you can help it.

We all are traveling less, so our gas bill should be down—obviously, oil prices are down—and I think just try to be prudent with the decisions you make in the short term. Yeah, and what Anne is referring to, we've had a partnership—you know, we've both alluded to it over the course of this live stream—for I think it's seven or eight years now, back in 2010-2011, and this was when Khan Academy was a very small organization. So, I give Bank of America a lot of credit where they said, "You know, we really want to educate folks."

And I remember those first conversations with Anne and her team. You know, we were a little suspicious of you, frankly. We thought, "You know, big bank, we're the small startup." And we said, "Well, you know, we want to have editorial freedom." They were like, "Of course, you need that editorial freedom." And so we got into that partnership around Better Money Habits and this financial literacy because I think both sides of us think that this is a key thing.

I mean, if we were masters of the education system, we would make financial literacy part of that school system alongside algebra and American history and everything else. But I have to say, Anne, you know, this has been a really—and I don't think I've actually had a chance to tell you this—I mean, the partnership has kind of given me a lot of faith that a lot of the stereotypes folks have about, "Oh, you know, big companies, they're…" Because from day one, y'all have just said, "Well, what do you think is right to tell students?"

And, you know, we in our stuff that we publish together, we talk about things—some of the same things that you just alluded to, like pay off your credit card debt as soon as possible, try to pay off your high-interest rate type of things, you know, leverage your 401k if there's a match, and all of that type of thing. And this isn't always in the, so to speak, financial interest of financial institutions, but it's because you all see yourselves as such major actors for society generally that y'all want this information out there.

And, you know, I found that very rewarding—that at no point did we feel that we're in some way feeling held back in our openness and making sure we're empowering folks. That's—that I think has been great. So for anyone who's curious, you can check out Better Money Habits; you can check out the personal finance section on Khan Academy. That was all work that we've done together because of sponsorship from Bank of America.

So there's a question from YouTube, J.R. Foster, and maybe I'll connect this to your life. You know, the question is, "How can we be leaders during a crisis like this one?" And I'm guessing J.R. might be younger—we have a lot of high school students who watch this thing—but maybe, you know, how could you be leaders? And I'd love to connect that, you know, to get to know you and Ann Fenukin a little bit better. You know, how did you end up on the trajectory that you are on? How did you end up becoming, you know, one of the leaders, the top leaders in the financial sector globally?

It took a long time. So, you know, I want to go back to something that the previous guest asked, and that was about what to do right now. There is something people can do that's unusual right now, and that is that you can, if you need emergency funds, you can use your percentage of your 401(k) savings without penalty. So, while we wouldn't normally advise that, that is cash that's available to be used if you need it.

How did I become me? Well, I am not really a banker. Actually, I understand banking, but my background was in city politics and then in broadcasting to advertising marketing and research, and I came to the bank about 25 years ago—actually a predecessor bank that was acquired by Bank of America. I was brought in because they needed some help given how many mergers and acquisitions were going on in the financial services industry, and I probably understood the outside world better than I understood the inside of a bank.

So, I did that work for this Fleet Bank, which is a regional bank for New England, and then later for the Northeast. Bank of America acquired us in 2004, and honestly, I didn't think I would stay with the bank. They were headquartered in Charlotte, North Carolina. I'm from Boston. I spent most of my time somewhere between Washington, New York, and Boston. So, I had maybe been to Charlotte once or twice, and mostly just to change planes. You know, it's a good connecting flight location. So, I didn't think it would work out, but it did work out and it worked out because in their acquisition of our company, there were questions that were being raised in Washington by the head of the Financial Services Committee in the House—that was Barney Frank—and by the head of the Senate Banking Committee, Chris Dodd.

Luckily for us, they were both from New England. I understood what their issues were, and I think that we were able to ameliorate the kinds of concerns they had about employment, banking practices, etc. And I got to know this company better—Bank of America—and I was very impressed with the work they were doing, and that allowed me to maybe show them what I could do. Certainly, I was impressed with what the bank was doing, and so we went from there.

But as far as the past went, I think everything's, you know, kind of a prologue for your future. You take each thing you have, you try to apply it to the next thing. I didn't understand banking particularly well. Bankers had been my clients, but I hadn't been inside a bank. Actually, I'd never been inside a large public company other than a brief time for a company that then dissolved later.

So, you know, you just—one thing begets another. You apply what you've learned from the past, and you stay where you're happy. So, in each of these cases, I've been happy. The bank was probably not something I thought that they would either particularly like me or that I could see myself in a big corporation. But the kinds of things we just talked about earlier—the ability to give what will now be $350 million to worthy causes and actually help, whether it's food security or helping with education or affordable housing or environmental causes—that's really important stuff, and it takes big companies to be able to do that. It takes small operations as well. So when you can combine, that's really important.

And the trick is not to overwhelm. So in our case with Khan Academy, I'll tell you—and I’ve told you this before over dinner—that the way we came to Khan Academy is I was working with my daughter, who had a learning disability, and math was particularly difficult for her. So I discovered you, and we started to use Khan Academy for her to relearn some math skills that she had was getting rusty on, and it was so good that I thought, "Wow! We're supposed to do financial literacy, and some of what we've got is kind of boring."

And I wouldn't watch it myself, which is always a pretty good bellwether for whether it's good or not. Would you watch something yourself? And I've been watching what you did, and I thought, "Could we get you to come in and help us figure out how to talk to people?" The first video you did for us is "The Anatomy of a Paycheck," and it was very, very successful because who doesn't want to know? In your first job, let's just say you think you're going to be making $500 a week, and you look at your check, and it's $275. What happened to my money?

So, the ability to take people through what each of those deductions are and what they mean and whether you'll ever see it again, I thought was so terrific. We had millions of views of that, so if I thought it was gonna work, that first video told us it was a home run.

No, well, thanks for that. And, you know, I think your journey—I want to maybe double-click on a little bit. It'll maybe make you feel a little bit awkward because sometimes it’s tough talking about yourself or your own strengths. But clearly, there's something, you know, you've kind of said, "Well, you know, I was a bit of an outsider. I came to a bank 25 years ago, and, you know, good things happened—you know, I like it here," and I'm Vice Chair of the bank.

What do you think it was about—what do you think traits did you bring to the table that actually maybe aren't even as obvious or as intuitive for young people out there that allowed you to thrive? And what did people see in you that were they always, you know, when there was an opportunity for more leadership, they essentially said, "Hey, we think that that's a job for Ann Fenukin."

Yeah, actually, I don't think it went that way; I'm usually not people's, like, the immediate thought because I am a little bit of an outsider. But I'm a lifelong learner. I am curious. I enjoy other people. So, I'm perfectly willing to absorb your knowledge and then see if I can apply mine to it and see if we can get to something better. So, I think that makes a difference.

And over time, I don’t like crisis, and we've had plenty of them. So, in mergers and acquisitions, that sort of feels like a very acute moment, and that probably is for me when I'm at my best. So, maybe that means I'm a little flaky otherwise. But I like being able to apply lots of thinking, lots of reading. I read all the time—the experiences that I've had in others. I try to aggregate it, take complicated things and simplify them, and then see if we can make them better. And like I said, I enjoy working on a team, and I believe in creativity.

I believe creativity doesn't come from one source; I think it comes in all different manners and from all different people. Yeah, yeah, and I mean, well, I think one of the interesting things you said, which I think is very—it definitely resonates—is in a time of crisis, I think people are realizing, and that's when you get to see people and who they really are.

And I think people probably seen something in you—your ability to handle that well. I mean, related to that, this is actually J.R. Foster is asking a lot of good questions from YouTube: "What are some good leadership skills that you've developed over the years that, you know, they might not teach in business school, so to speak?"

Read. I think that's what a very underrated skill—read a lot of it. And it turns out a lot of people don’t read. And then read broadly. I mean, read the news of the day; read literature. Try to pursue what you may not be particularly good at. I'm not very good at science, but I think it's interesting, and I read about science and medical issues. So, it's the ability to have the humility to read and learn what you're not particularly good at and combine it with what you like.

So, I think that's huge—reading, listening. I think listening is way underrated. As it turns out, further up the food chain you go, the less people seem to listen. So, if you're not the one always talking and you're listening and you've been reading and you can aggregate a lot of information, you can simplify it. Those are leadership skills I don't think anybody teaches, but for me, they've been what's gotten me through.

That's very powerful. On the equity side of things, from Facebook, we have this question from Christine Zhu asking, "How are you and the team at Bank of America thinking about issues of equity in regards to access to capital that have been potentially exacerbated by this crisis?" Thank you for your time.

Well, I think this paycheck program is a pretty good example of it. If 98 percent of the people that can get this small business loan are small businesses that have under 100 people, that is an important step to making sure you're preparing the country because that is what America looks like: small businesses with under 100 people.

So, I think it's important that on this program, by the way, that the money runs out when the need runs out. And we've had two tranches; the first one was for $350 billion. That money ran out in two weeks. This new one that went online yesterday at $310 billion is going to run out. I think that Congress has to reallocate more money until everybody has been served, and we can get businesses. So, the idea is that you are able to pay people the next two and a half to three months while you may not actually be able to run your businesses.

So, when that point comes, when you can go back to work or reopen your business, the individuals that have been working for you have been paid along the way. So it's a 75 percent paycheck and like 25 percent is rent or mortgage or the kinds of things that overhead you would have for that. That's one way of thinking of it. The other is to always try to be fair in your fees, to try to have programs like Better Money Habits where you're literally trying to educate people on how to improve their FICO score, rent versus buy, what kind of mortgages might be available to people for first-time buyers, etc.

We are the largest consumer bank in the country, we're the second largest bank, but the largest in terms of the largest small business lender, for instance. We have a very big portfolio in the LMI community, meaning low to moderate income communities. I mean, that's evaluated by the government and everyone else, so we have an outstanding rating from the government on that.

It's being good at those programs. I think we were very good at them for many years. I think the financial crisis was not only a low point for the country, but a low point for Bank of America. I think we took that in; I think we were chastened by it. We made many changes in the bank, whether it's from the really prosaic things like looking at fees and services to what we would offer in terms of lines of business—not having overdrafts at point of sale, so just trying to do everything you can think of, like laying out everything you do as a company and saying, "Is this fair?"

So, we still need to make money; credit cards are not free. There are interest rates that go with them. If you write a bunch of checks and they’re over—the overdrafts—you will pay for that. But you won't if you don't have the money to pay for something at a point of sale. We'll just have—you know, it won't be able to be bought because you don't want to take that overdraft charge; you don't want to keep running up bills that you can't afford to pay, right?

And I think it's important. Those are some of the things that we…

Yeah, no, no, that's incredible. And, Anne, this is—I mean, it's amazing how many questions are coming through. Whenever we're having a good conversation, the time seems to go incredibly fast. If you have a couple of minutes—I mean, there's a lot of questions; people are obviously curious about the economy itself, and you have a very unique vantage point.

You know, from Facebook, Marta Wingard, "Is this a crazy time to buy a house?" Chris Shaw from YouTube, "Should we be investing in the market since the market is down?" Maura Kenyo Olo Bile, "Is this a good time to refinance a mortgage?" So that all goes into this category of, you know, people are just, you know, should you freeze? Should you act? Should you just wait for things to play out? What are the scenarios of how this economy might play out?

You talked about a little bit—it sounds like you're expecting, hopefully, some normalization in the back half of this year.

Yeah, the fourth quarter is probably the beginning of the normalization. So, you know, first of all, it's very hard to—because it's a health crisis, it’s very hard to predict when the states will open, when the cities will open, and therefore when the businesses will open. So, we're kind of following along, but presuming that we're looking at at least some of business opening—and I'm talking about small businesses opening in the summer and perhaps schools opening in September—we do see normalization of some sort in the fourth quarter.

And then, as I said, in 2021, we see things improving. So, overall, down in 2020 at about six percent and about the same up in 2021. So, is it a good time to buy a house? Well, it's a good time to buy a house if you already had—you have a house in mind, you have the down payment, you are still employed, and you think you will be employed. So, if all those things are in place, it's a good time to buy a house.

It's not a good time to buy a house if you didn't have all that in place and you just think, "Wow, maybe it would be a good time to buy a house because housing prices—" the theory would be that housing prices will go down. They might go down a little bit, but I said earlier something that's unusual, which is there's not a big glut of available houses on the market.

And that's when they really go down. So, might there be a reduction in housing prices? Yes, because someone may want to sell their house because they already wanted to sell their house. But I don’t think it will be pervasive. Another question was about the market: buy or sell now? Well, you wouldn't sell in a down market if you can help, but that's for sure.

And I listened to Melody yesterday on buying when the market is down. I don’t give investment advice, so I don’t think I should start now other than to say I still say live within your means. I don't do too much myself in the middle of a crisis in terms of buying or selling, and I guess I wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah, and I’ll just triply underline your "live within your means." I grew up in a household, you know, we used to—we used to reuse paper towels, and I actually only later learned that that wasn't normal behavior. We used to always dry out our paper towels after using it because we didn't—you know, my mom made maybe $16,000 a year as a cashier. But that lesson, I think if you have that kind of financial resilience, it pays a lot of dividends well beyond timing the market or getting in on some amazing investment opportunity.

That's great. If that happens, but it's really about what you…

Yeah, I'll tell you something I am thinking about, which is—we have been working very hard on the sustainable development goals for the last several years, and I don't want other companies or our company—and we won't lose sight of the importance of that. So, we're the largest writer of, underwriter of green bonds. We're a big issuer of green bonds, and green bonds are like municipal bonds.

They're kind of boring; they pay a low interest rate, but they have very low volatility. The idea behind a green bond versus a municipal bond is that at the end of the duration of the bond, you have to demonstrate that it did some environmental good.

So, just to use a truly prosaic example, is the City of Los Angeles—a bond was issued for them to change over their lighting to LED lighting, and this is a few years ago now. That's okay; that's a good thing to do. But in doing it, they lowered their energy bill, and they were able to pay the bond off kind of easily because actually in the longer term their energy bills, their electricity bills are lower.

It's better for the environment, and that kind of innovative thinking—we don't want to lose sight of that in a time like that, and that sometimes happens, but I don't think it will this time. It just is—it's kind of in the DNA, I think, of Americans to start thinking about this, so we're thinking about it and not losing sight of how to help on affordable housing or how to help on the environment or how to help on education because these things will be here six months from now, two years from now.

There will be a vaccine at some point; people will be vaccinated. There will be remedies for this, and these larger, big issues don't go away. Unless we continue to invest in them, they only will worsen. And maybe related to that, just to finish off on a high note, obviously this is a strange time for the whole planet right now. There's a lot of bad news out there on the healthcare front, on the economic front.

You know, dream a little bit—could there potentially be some silver linings? Could there be some things that would come out of this crisis maybe a little bit better than when we went in? Any ideas on your side?

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts around that. First of all, I think people are—you know your work, many people are working from home. So, the ability to sort of engage with your family in a way that you haven't for a long time is really important. And also, an appreciation for those people that are not working at home that are on the front lines in a critical job.

I mean the people that we have in the banking centers, whether we're making sure they have protection and gloves and masks and bringing in their lunch to them, and that sort of thing—you just start to appreciate those people that are on the front line. And I think about the medical community and all they're doing. I think sometimes we take these things for granted: doctors, nurses, EMTs. We don't take them for granted anymore in the same way that you didn't take firefighters and the police after 9/11.

You looked at people differently. I think this is an opportunity to look at things differently. Obviously, because we are driving less, the use of cars on the road has been reduced, so there's been a little bit of—if even if it's just incremental—improvement in greenhouse gas emissions. So those are a couple of good things that I think are worth noting.

Yeah, no, I think that's a great one. And that first one is alluding to maybe we all feel a little bit more gratitude for those around us and the gratitude for what we have had and maybe what we still have, even though things are tough and very tough for a lot of folks.

Well, Anne, thank you so much! This was a, you know, really fun conversation. I hope you're willing to do this again. There's so many questions here that I would—it would be, like, nice to draw down that backlog at some point. But thank you so much, and thank you for being such an incredible supporter for Khan Academy through the years around financial literacy, and especially through this crisis.

Well, Sal, thank you. And thank you for all you do. You know, you've been a great partner for us for the last several years, and as I mentioned earlier, your videos have actually changed how we think about financial literacy and actually what we think about what people want to know. So we look forward to continuing with you as a partner and all that you're doing, and thank you for everybody that tuned in today.

Thanks, Anne! So, I just want to say thank you everyone for joining. That was another super fun conversation with someone that I've, as I mentioned, view as a mentor and really look up to and have learned a lot from. Hopefully, I think y'all have gotten a lot from her as well.

I just—stay safe, stay healthy. I will see everyone tomorrow. And remember, we are not for profit. If you're in a position to do so, please think about making a donation to Khan Academy so that we can support many tens of millions, or actually hundreds of millions, of learners around the world. Thank you so much!