Khan Academy Ed Talks - Reimagining School with Sal Khan, Rachel E. Skiffer, & Kim Dow

Hi everyone, Sal Khan here from Khan Academy. Welcome to Ed Talks! You could view this as a flavor of our homeroom live stream that we've... we, we focus more on education topics.

Uh, first of all, I want to wish everyone a happy new year! Hopefully, your 2021 is already off to a good start. We have a really exciting conversation today. We actually have the leadership from Khan Lab School here. We're going to talk about that in a little bit after I give my standard announcements.

But you know, this is a school that I started alongside several other folks to really complement the work of Khan Academy. To show how a physical environment can be liberated if you're able to let students work at their own time and pace and master concepts. We're going to be talking a lot about what we've learned at Khan Lab School over the last six or seven years now that it's a K-12 school. We're going to be talking about how we've navigated COVID. So if you have any questions on any of that, feel free to put questions in on YouTube or on Facebook.

But before we begin that conversation, I remind everyone that Khan Academy is a not-for-profit organization. So if you're in a position to do so, please think about going to khanacademy.org/donate and making a donation. I also want to give a special shout-out to several organizations that stepped up really before the, uh, or during when COVID hit, when they realized that Khan Academy was already running into a deficit, and the deficit was growing as we had to step up to support more students.

So special thanks to Bank of America, Google.org, AT&T, Fastly, and Novartis. But I will remind everyone that that's helped, but we still need more help, especially now that we're in 2021. We continue to have a gap.

I'm back! Sorry for that. My local Wi-Fi isn't what it may be. Anyway, I was in the midst of introducing the KLS leadership team, Rachel Kim. Down, Rachel! Hit a full-time lab school, Kim Dao is the head of the Upper School at Khan Lab. Rachel Kim, thanks for joining us today!

Thanks for having us! Hi Sal, we all work very closely to each other. Rachel, maybe a good place to start, um, for those of folks who aren't familiar with Khan Lab School. You know you've been head of school there for three years now. Your previous role was ahead of strategic planning at Phillips Andover. When you first came to Khan Lab School, and actually in the three years since, what's really stood out to you is what you know differentiates the school and what you think we have the potential to do or show for the broader community?

Oh, so many things! So one of the things that stood out for me, I think there's certainly a national conversation about what needs to change for students to keep them engaged, to make sure that access to learning is equitable. And in particular, there are some systems that have been around for so long, even when they want to change, it's very difficult to do.

And so what stood out for me, and which still stands out for me for Khan Lab School, is we are very thoughtful about what we do. And if there's something that's working well, we amplify it. And if there's something that we need to switch up, we're able to be incredibly nimble, and to be able to make those changes really quickly.

So that I appreciate as an educator. And I think particularly being able to listen to our students and take that feedback in, and our teachers. I love the true lab piece of the school in that every part of the community is in it together, and we all have the same goal of not only making Khan Lab School, or KLS as we call it, as strong as possible, but I think that mission, that what we're doing here is really for us to share out for the benefit of schools, educators, and students everywhere.

And you know, when the school was started, there were some theories, some founding principles that we wanted to test as a lab school. This idea that learning doesn't have to be bound by time or space; that students should be able to learn concepts at their own time and pace; that they should be able to show mastery; that, you know, if you get 80, you shouldn't just get a C marked on your permanent transcript or your forehead for the rest of your life; that you should get an opportunity to get that mastery that'll set you up better for more advanced things.

And it gives everyone these multiple chances. But there's been other ideas around full-year schooling, full-day schooling, having students teach each other. You know, there's everyone's a student, everyone's a teacher— that's what the shirts at Khan Lab School say. How do you feel about those things? What have you think the school has been able to prove out that have worked well? And where do you think we could push even harder?

I think it shouldn't be a radical notion, but the part you mentioned about every student can achieve at a high level, I think that mastery piece is incredibly important. There are so many other things that kids do where they're given the time to master it, whether it's piano, whether it's, you know, they're a soccer player or a dancer.

But for some reason, when it comes to science or math, we're in these systems where it's like, okay move along. So that notion that actually at our school we don't have letter grades, but for us mastery means a student reaches 90 proficiency. And so the mastery is constant; the time at which that happens changes.

And so that's incredible to me and incredibly motivating for students, even the ones where it takes them a little more time, because there's not this fear of failure— is one thing. But I think also internally, the notion that people believe that they can achieve at a high level, that's incredibly profound.

And then I think as we've learned through COVID and the pandemic and everything that's happening with schools, we're built as a school for parents who work. And so the fact that we can stay open until six and have a program that's really enriching after sort of traditional school hours for those students who want to stay, and so that parents can kind of finish up if they do have a job that happens to end late in the afternoon, I think that's a great building block of how you even think about a school in the community beyond the academic piece.

And you know, one of the ideas that a lot of folks have, you know, they think, okay, Khan Academy is definitely, you know, it's an online learning tool. Obviously, KLS leverages Khan Academy a lot, but they might have a stereotype or I would describe it as a misconception that, oh therefore this must be like a super tech-focused school.

Obviously, it's a very tech-savvy school; it leverages online tools. But, you know, Rachel, then I actually loved Kim's thoughts especially as we go into high school. But Rachel, you know, what would surprise people when they visit the school about, you know, the level of human interactivity?

Sure! I think I always shock people by letting them know that we still teach cursive. And the fact that there's great research about sort of brain connectivity and the ability to master material. So for us, the tech is not the point; it's just a tool.

And I think people would also be surprised by how adept students are with that piece of the learning, particularly when we had to do remote learning in a few weeks. So our students, when they got home, they were used to going online, using Khan Academy, being able to show their teachers by inputting things that they've mastered something.

Sort of the—we talk a lot about executive function, executive skills at Khan Lab School. So that's part of what's built in. And as you say often in your book, I think in general people don't give young folks as much credit as they should about what they're able to do.

And so just given where we are in the 21st century for students to have that ability. But also, they're reading books, they're spending time with teachers, we're really thoughtful about how many hours they spend in front of the screen and collaboration.

That's even in Zoom—our students are able to do it. But I think when you come to campus and see how much interaction there is, um, and how much time they spend with each other, um, in addition to some of the time that they spend on tools, I think it just speaks to the notion of how important relationships are in schools and for a teacher and student connection, how that really helps build up a student as they're going through their journey of learning from kindergarten all the way through the end of high school.

You know, and I could say, you know, I'm obviously involved at kind of the leadership level of the school, but as a parent of three students who attend the school, you know, one of the things that I hoped and I couldn't have imagined when I wrote "One World Schoolhouse," but I think the school is doing in spades, is to your point, Rachel, the kids are interacting with each other and the faculty in ways that are, in a very positive way, unusual.

I've never seen a group of kids more invested in each other, willing to help each other across age groups, and they genuinely view the faculty as some of their best friends. Like, you know, my daughter was telling me how much she's missing her teacher over, or teachers over the holiday break, which is really a special thing about the community.

You know, Kim, you know, as ahead of the Upper School, which includes the high school, you know, one thing that we often hear and I often hear is, okay Sal, you've got all these avant-garde ideas. They make a lot of sense intellectually that kids should be able to master concepts. If they're at a C level, they should keep working on it, get to an A level, get to true mastery.

But I, as a parent, am worried about how the universities will look at that. What about college admissions? How does KLS, I would say, you know, stack up? Now we have our first graduates this year; they've started applying to colleges, they've taken your traditional standardized tests. How, in your mind, is KLS stacking up in this kind of, uh, you know, this interface with the real world, so to speak?

You know, that's a great question. And what's really fascinating is that our students, and I think it's partly because of the kind of culture that Rachel was speaking to that we have at the school, our students are incredibly relaxed about the kinds of things that they're pursuing. And many of them are, you know, really doing passion projects and internships and wonderful things in the community and really kind of pushing the accelerator on some of the things that they're interested in studying in their class.

But at the same time, they do not feel like they are in a pressure cooker. And I think one of the things that really came as a surprise to me is that—and the high school is much younger than the rest of the elementary and middle school program—is how remarkably well they did when we gave them opportunities to do these sort of external validation of what our program looked like when they were doing things like either taking dual enrollment classes at local colleges or taking standardized tests.

They didn't feel pressured about getting exceptional results, and then, you know, when we found out how they did, it was really quite remarkable that they were stacking up really quite well against, you know, against their peers. So that's been a great surprise.

It's probably considered tacky to show off for your own kids, but I think it's fair for me to show off for other people's kids. Uh, but you're exactly right! I think you're, you know, this graduating class and, you know, what I've seen is they're performing exceptionally.

You know, I would say the average scores, even though, as you mentioned, the school isn't—you know, people believe that if that the pressure cooker environment is a necessity for kids to perform well, especially in a lot of places like Silicon Valley where everyone has these, you know, very high expectations for themselves or for their own children.

But I think what you and the team at Khan Lab School, in conjunction with the students, have really shown is there's a way for kids to have a very healthy adolescence and at the same time be quite aspirational. You know, we have students who are interning at startups, self-driving car companies, at NASA; in many cases, some cases they're leading college student interns.

They're performing on traditional standardized tests, you know, their average scores are better than many highly, highly selective universities. And that's in a context where the school isn't saying, you know, we are a pressure cooker environment where you have to do homework all night. Uh, it's more about we believe that you need the chance to master concepts.

And if you master it and have strong foundations, then when you go get assessed in the world, you're going to do just fine. I think that's the other misconception; it's not that we don't have grades. In fact, mastery in many ways is a higher level of rigor than traditional grades.

Traditional grades, you get a B; too bad! Mastery says no, everyone needs to get to an A level. So, you know, I'm curious on for both of y'all. Maybe I'll start with Rachel. What, you know, it's been about— in 2014, we started with the PowerPoint presentation. There were 30 kids ages 5 through, I think, 11 at the time. The school is now a little over 200 students K through 12. We have our first graduates of this coming year, and it looks like they're doing very well on all of these benchmarks that Kim and I were just alluding to.

Rachel, what where do you see is the next phase of KLS now that we've gotten this far?

I think we have a few phases, I would—I know that we're; we're focused on, I think it's one sort of growth of the school, right? So to be able to bring more kids in, we had a great professional development day as a team, um, really talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice. And so I think that is a foundation of the work we're doing here.

And so to be able to expand, find space to bring more students in, increase peer groups for teachers, I think that's an important step as a very young school that has some really big ideals and some big goals.

Uh, so I I can let Kim chime in; that's one of the big pieces, and I think continuing to share out. If people want to go to our website, conlabschool.org, there are some great blog posts from teachers to other teachers about some of the work that they're doing around math and mastery-based learning, how to use Khan Academy.

Our students, even when they're on tools, they're not by themselves. That's group work and then they'll do some great problem-solving together, project-based learning. Uh, and then also even again talking about executive skills and what teachers—and now in the pandemic, what parents can do to support their students' autonomy and independence.

So just being able to broaden that as a school with more students I think is really important, and more space to do that.

Yeah, and what about you, Kim? What are you excited about now that you've, you know, you've built out this incredible middle and high school programs that seem to, you know, really fulfill a lot of what at least my aspirations or dreams were back when, actually, even when "One World Schoolhouse" was written back in 2011-2012.

You know, where do you see the next phase for the upper school, especially the high school?

Um, well, we couldn't be more excited in the high school about feeling like we've really just begun to hit our stride. And you know, as you said earlier, having our first graduating class. And one of the things that we have really worked very hard on in the last couple of years is really deepening our partnerships with local organizations.

And really, in some unexpected ways, it has really created some wonderful opportunities for the school, for our students, and for our teachers, who especially, I would say in the pandemic, really, really became quite adept at online teaching.

And that really brought us back full circle to really wanting to extend our reach. And in many ways, you know, sometimes we say we're a private school with a public purpose, but what does that really mean for us in the high school?

And so in the coming years, I really see us extending our partnership with local colleges and thinking about what pre-college programs mean for our students and perhaps for a wider student body and thinking about more deeply what does it mean to extend our reach in terms of some of the things that we've learned in terms of offering online courses and potentially online programs to other students outside of our area.

So that's something that we're thinking very intentionally about, and whether that's something that we feel that we can do well.

Yeah, I mean on both those points, you know, one thing that we've talked about which I think is fascinating is this line between high school and college is really an arbitrary one. And we know that just as everyone should be able to fill in their gaps, part of personalization is if someone is ready for college-level material—and sometimes we know students are quite young who are ready for it—there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to do it and get credit.

So you know, maybe there's ways that by the time someone finishes high school, they have two, three, maybe four years of college credit one day, which is going to be really interesting to explore.

And ideally, some of it, or most of it, it can be in person, but maybe there's ways to give access to folks who aren't able to be present in the same way, which could be very exciting.

A lot of questions coming in from social media! From Facebook, there's a question—and this could be for both of y'all—what does KLS do differently from typical schools to increase a student's independence so they take more ownership over their goals in life and afford their learning?

How does that happen? We both talked about it—I could speak as a parent and as kind of a board member of the school. I see it in spades, even when COVID hit. Even the young KLS kids didn't miss a beat; they had their goals; they were able to interface that way; they were able to exercise a lot of independence.

Rachel, and then Kim, what does KLS do? How does this happen? Is it just magic, or is it something that's done very intentionally?

It's both! But no, I think the intentionality of it, even with our youngest students—particularly starting in second grade, third grade, our teachers are also advisors—with a capital A—and so they will spend half an hour at least with every student individually and sort of coach them in having a student set out their own goals for the week.

So, okay, I want to do some ELA work, I want to get some math done, I want to work on my passion project. And so we actually give students their own schedule with blank spots for students to fill in so they can really manage their work.

And so I think that's really important for students to get that practice very early. And then, you know, the next week, a teacher will sit down and say, so how did you do on your goals? And if there was a goal that a student reached, and maybe it was too easy for them to do, we can help a student push a little bit more.

And then if the goal is just unrealistic and stressing out a student, we can do that coaching. So I think just having the practice of being in charge of your work and being really thoughtful about what to do—our kids know that, oh, you know, maybe I should work on the subject I like the least first, just to get that out of the way.

So that is a tool I think some adults don't even really exercise until it's too late. So I think that piece is really important. And then the second thing I'll add is the self-paced piece that you talked about.

And so our students really—we talk about self-paced at a minimum pace, but as they’re thinking about their work for the week or longer, if they want to set a goal of finishing something a little bit more quickly than the standards say, that's okay. And then when it's time for them to move to the next what would be a traditional grade level just in the subject, we allow them to do that.

And so students don't have to be bored, right? And at the same time, students have the ability to go deeper in something if they want to do that. So I think developmentally, it's nice for our students.

We have some fifth graders in seventh grade standards math, so they'll go to that math class, but their home base is still a group of students that are within their sort of age and developmental level. So there's also that safety, socially and emotionally, of still being within an age-peer group but being able to sort of spike class-wise if you need to do that.

Yeah, that notion is super powerful. As you mentioned, age is not a limiter on students' academic progression. But the school does it very thoughtfully, because obviously there could be—and we do have students who might be fifth graders reading at a high school or even early college level, but you have to be careful of what they're reading.

But similarly, if there's height—and we have fifth graders, you mentioned, rooting seventh, eighth, ninth. I think there's a few doing 10th or 11th grade level work, but as they need to be supported, make sure that, you know, they're smaller, they can go into the environment with the older students and be in a position to thrive.

Uh, Kim, any thoughts on, you know, what do you think KLS has been doing either explicitly or implicitly to allow students to build that independence?

You know, for some of the students who at age 16 or 17 are walking into internships and are managing college students, once again, how does that happen?

Again, I think it's part of the culture of the school, and it's really just part of the fabric of the everyday experience that students have, especially with the relationships that they're forming with their teachers.

And I think one of the things—for example, at the beginning of middle school, students do a capstone project. And so they really have an opportunity early on, right before they begin high school, to do a deep dive.

And so they get the message early on that there are no limits to what they can ask to do. And so as they enter the high school program, whether it's internships, whether it is a capstone project that they're doing at the end of middle school or at the end of their high school experience, or it's an independent study that they, or a group of friends, are proposing or strong-arming a teacher into, um, you know, to teach, they can really pursue any topic at a deep level within the environment of the school.

And one of the things that, you know, really is fascinating; we've gotten to a point with our oldest students where they are now coming to us and proposing classes that they can teach to other schools, to other students. And so, um, it's really come full circle in the last couple of years.

Oh yeah, absolutely! Rachel, sorry. The other thing is we sometimes get students who transfer in who might—in maybe it's in English language arts or math—be a little behind, and we're able to catch them up.

And so depending, you know, they might be a few months behind of what would be expected for a grade level or even a year. And so our teachers are really thoughtful and, again, with the belief that all students can and really achieve at a high level in mapping out with the student and the family sort of.

Let's work together to figure out how we're going to get you to the school you have of being where you want to be and think you want to be. So I think that process is also pretty unique to us, and that we're able to do that pretty seamlessly. And also I think with the self-worth of the student remaining intact.

Yeah, and on that point, I mean, we give the students real responsibility. We have upper school students who are literally teaching assistants or teachers with real responsibility of advanced math courses.

As Kim just mentioned, we've had students creating, you know, a linear algebra course, and linear algebra—the college version—the course that's normally taken your sophomore, junior year in college as an advanced topic is now a course that is being created by KLS students for other younger KLS students.

Uh, who are, uh, you know, and then we've even had students contribute to Khan Academy, create our multivariable calculus course on Khan Academy, which is now serving hundreds of thousands of students around the world.

Uh, and that's normally the type of responsibility that you would give to someone with a PhD and a lot of experience. But, uh, you know, we've been seeing some really powerful things. And, you know, to Rachel's point, KLS does do a shadow day to make sure students are ready for the level of independence, especially if they're coming in as a transfer student.

But there isn't your traditional IQ test or aptitude test. And so we have had students come in in the bottom quartile in a certain subject or the bottom half, and especially the longer that they've stayed at the school, you know, especially by graduation, almost all of them—I think all of them are operating in the, you know, the top decile, if not a good bit higher than that.

Which, once again, speaks to it's not just about what you know. A lot of times some independent schools do is they'll just kind of cream the top and then say, look what we did there. You know, there's always a little bit of that selection bias, but I'd like to believe that the mastery learning and the ability to fill in gaps and giving students real agency and autonomy and opportunity is playing a big role here.

You know, there's a question here from Facebook: Victoria Angelo Umedo. How do you do mastery learning or mastery-based learning? I need guidance for me and my three elementary school children.

I could take a first stab at it because it's really a—you know, Khan Lab School does it all in every subject. Khan Academy is a big believer in mastery-based learning in the subjects that it's able to cover.

But it's really just this notion that if you, let's say in math, get to an 80 level, then you should get as many attempts as possible to get that to a hundred percent. In a traditional model, you get an 80, you're given a letter grade, given a C, and then you move on to the next subject.

That gap persists; those gaps accumulate. And then you get to an algebra class and nothing makes sense because you have all these gaps from fifth grade and sixth grade and seventh grade. Mastery-based learning is let's keep working on it, identify, get an opportunity to fill in your gaps, and then ideally don't have them in the first place.

If you're at an 80, keep working on it, and that's what the software, the practice at Khan Academy does, and then KLS is able to do that in domains well beyond what Khan Academy can offer. It does that in writing, it does that in humanities.

You know, speaking of that last point, actually, Kim, you've done a lot of interesting work with the group at Harvard Business School around civics. You know, I think that's another really cool example of some of the innovation going on at KLS. Tell us about the case-based civics course that KLS has been doing.

You know, again, it's just more about the power of unexpected partnerships. And we, um, you know, we contacted the Harvard Business School and the Case Management Institute, and one of our history teachers developed this partnership with them around taking a government and politics class, which is a class that we teach in our high school, and taking, um, cases that were, um, being put together by the Institute and using them as the basis of this course.

And so it has actually developed very quickly into a partnership where by now this spring we have some external faculty members who are in universities on the East Coast who are going to start coming and team-teaching and are interested in helping us to further develop this content.

And again, extending it, um, you know, beyond KLS. But, um, you know, again, I would say in the humanities and in other areas, you know, there is a lot of power in developing really high quality high school content, um, you know, outside of your institution.

And I would say our teachers have really begun to push the boundaries, not just in terms of working, you know, with Khan Academy, but also with working with some other institutions like Harvard Business School.

And a lot of questions are coming in. Uh, you know, a question from Facebook: Tom Lowe. "Are Khan Lab School is going to be global?" From YouTube: Ibukan Akunway. "KLS, do you admit people living in Nigeria?"

I could take a first stab at that. So right now, it's in the Bay Area. You know, I think there's some interesting things to think about in normal years, especially now that it's a full through 12 school, we would probably have a handful of slots primarily at the kindergarten, you know, available every year.

They look—there looks like there might be an opportunity, nothing's final, for us to be able to expand a good bit, uh, this coming year. This is almost an unusual year where we might be able to expand, so for people living in the Bay Area, that's, I think, going to be a really interesting opportunity.

Right now, and then we are exploring—we haven't figured it all out yet—ways to open up parts of the school to someone anywhere in the world if we can make the logistics and the time zone work out. Maybe there's ways to have parts of these experiences available to, you know, to the whole globe, which is really what the intention of KLS really is—to be able to serve everyone and then also set an example that other people can replicate and take and make it useful for them.

Uh, you know, in the time we have left, Rachel, any final thoughts? You know, especially if there's students out there listening, some maybe in the Bay Area who might be able to go to KLS; maybe some outside of the Bay Area who might want to replicate this type of thing for themselves or for parents or for people thinking about starting a school.

You know, what kind of big messages or big takeaways would you have for them? And then I'll ask Kim the same question.

Oh, that's a big question, Sal! I think for me, in this moment, and what schools have had to do, everyone is really sort of yearning for a return to normal. And I think sort of when all of this is over, it's really important for schools and for families and students who are seeking out schools to think about: is there anything in this that we want to keep?

And so in particular, seeking out schools like Khan Lab School where for us, the learning really is centered with the student. And also I think we're spending a lot of family time. But for us, because there's all this research that, you know, four hours of homework in high school, it doesn't make any sense. Kindergarteners should not have homework.

And so to think about the culture of the school and the support that they provide your child in really learning and maximizing what they're able to achieve and really allowing them to think about what they're passionate about at a really young age, and that that's not going to be set in stone.

But I think what I love most about Khan Lab School is watching kids get really excited about what they're able to do, and then to be able to share and learn with other students. And I think, you know, the other piece is, time is so important. There are a lot of schools where kind of the more time, as you said, that kids spend stressed out and frazzled, somehow that is success, and that's not the case at all.

I think, you know, we really are mindful of what's important, whether that's a strong academic foundation, being really thoughtful around social-emotional learning and how students work with other students, and then also executive skills—how students work with themselves and that kind of discipline.

So for those who are in the area and interested, come check out Khan Lab School. We have an open house on Saturday!

Um, but I feel like when all of this is over, for us it is a testament to what we've already had in place that's made some of the transitions smoother for our families than at other schools.

Absolutely! Um, Kim, you know, parting thoughts for folks listening either in the Bay Area or outside it?

I would say, uh, we have an inquiry form on our website. If you'd like to know more in addition to the open house that Rachel mentioned, um, we have an inquiry form. If you share your contact information, we will be in touch with you.

And, um, I would just share that, um, you know, whether you are in a learning pod or in a, an online school or in a school that has gone online, whether you're a teacher or a parent, don't forget that it's about the teaching and it's about the pedagogy.

It's not about the platform, and don't be afraid to to shake things up. If there ever was a time, this is a good time to do it! And, um, and don't worry about going too fast; sometimes you have to go slow to speed up.

Yeah, well, thank you both. You know, I get undue credit oftentimes for Khan Academy because, um, you know, I very humbly put my last name on it. And then the same thing happened with Khan Lab School, but you know, I all I can really say is, um, I set some of the vision with a lot of question marks, and it's really being able to bring on some incredible talent—some leaders like yourselves who then brought on, you know, really a world-class team.

And, you know, I'm very proud of the teachers and the whole community, but especially the teachers we have at KLS are just, uh, you know, off the charts committed to what they do. Really the art of what they do in the skill of what they do that's really turning what was a, a, you know, a theory in a book, uh, seven or eight years ago into what I think is in a lot of ways a very interesting lighthouse for, for education.

And, you know, I talk to a lot of heads of admissions, uh, even college presidents, and even though KLS is, you know, still relatively small by school standards, a lot of people are taking a look at it because I think everyone is feeling this pain of, you know, stress, anxiety, depression is going through the roof for young people these days.

But at the same time, academic outcomes and the ability to feel engaged in society and have skills, uh, either soft skills or, you know, hard skills, we're not seeing that advanced as much. Even though kids are stressed out.

And I think the two of you all with this incredible team are paving a path to show that this isn't a trade-off. You can have really happy and healthy kids who also do exceptionally well in terms of academic skills, content knowledge, collaboration ability to lead.

So thank you for being part of this journey with us all. It's going to be fun. Thanks, Sal! My pleasure! Bye!

Well, thanks everyone for joining our first, uh, I was gonna say homeroom, but I guess homeroom Ed Talks live stream of the year. I'm glad you all had a chance— we had Rachel on many months ago— but I'm glad you had a chance to meet both Rachel and Kim on some of the really exciting things of what's of what's going on.

So if you're at all intrigued, whether you live outside of the Bay Area or you're in the Bay Area, as Rachel mentioned, I think there's an open house this weekend. Check out kls.org, and you know, as now that KLS is more and more established, it's really starting to have a lot of powerful data points.

I'm going to work with the team to, you know, have the school fulfill its mission even more of sharing a lot with the world so some of these practices can become even more mainstream.

So with that, I hope everyone is having a great 2021, and I will see you at the next live stream, which might be a homeroom or an Ed Talk. See you then!