Bringing Woke Capitalism to a Shuddering Halt | Robby Starbuck | EP 490

I think it's very important people understand the modern left. They are a new age version of the Communist Party. What they realized was you don't need to go seize the means of production; you just need to control the minds of the people in charge of production. Look at Google, look at Facebook. Every one of these companies acts as an arm of the state's ruling party.

We fundamentally shifted from a system where the customer is King to one where the needs and desires of the Democratic Party are King. And secondary to that are the needs and desires of Black Rock, State Street, and Vanguard.

Hello everybody! I had the opportunity today to talk to Robbie Starbuck, and I came across him on X. He's been mounting a single-handed war, although he has a team, against woke capitalism. I'm not a fan of woke capitalism. I can't imagine anything more preposterous than woke capitalism because the woke movement is essentially Marxist. It's a deadly enemy of anything vaguely smacking of capitalism.

The notion that giant corporations are promoting a pathological form of compassionate neo-Marxism is absolutely preposterous. In any case, of all the people that I've been watching over the last couple of years, Robbie Starbuck seems to have mounted the most effective sequential campaigns against the woke capitalists.

Now, there have been other contenders in that regard—the Republican Treasurers Association, I probably got that name wrong—has done a pretty good job of pushing back against the ESG mongers like Black Rock. But Robbie Starbuck has gone after Tractor Supply, John Deere, Harley-Davidson, and a host of other corporations who are named in the interview and very effectively.

I've been wondering just who this guy is. You know, from my perspective, he just popped up on the landscape. That doesn't mean that I'm informed enough to know what I should know about where he came from, and we delve into that too. But the first time he went after Tractor Supply, I thought, "Well, that's real interesting."

And then John Deere, and I thought, "Oh, that's twice, you know, and he's successful both times." And then Harley-Davidson, which was really the killer as far as I was concerned, because there's nothing more absurd that you can possibly contemplate than woke Harley-Davidson. So I wanted to know who he was and what he's up to and whether he can be trusted and what's motivating him and how he views this in the long run and what his strategy is in his approach. We covered all of that, and so if you're very interested in how to conduct yourself so that you can be an agent of appropriate change while taking the responsibility necessary to do so, you could do a lot worse than to listen to Robbie Starbuck for 90 minutes.

Well, thanks for agreeing to talk to me today, Robbie. I've been following you for a while on X, as have an increasing number of people, and you sort of, as far as I was concerned, you sort of popped out of nowhere. All of a sudden, you're causing major trouble to corporations everywhere—corporations who richly deserve it. I gotta say, Harley-Davidson tops the list in terms of foolish corporate maneuvering contrary to the interests of their committed consumer base. I think they did something even more foolish than Budweiser, which is really quite a hard contest to win.

So the first thing I'd like to know, and perhaps everybody watching and listening is, well who are you and what have you been doing? Let's lay out your plan and your strategy and how you developed that. So just a history of you, and then what it is that you've been up to.

Yeah, so this—maybe let's reverse that. Let's start with what you’ve been up to and then do a history of you.

Okay, so the way this all started, you know, we've had sources giving us great stories for a long time, and so there's a measure of trust that gets built up. You know, like for instance, one of those stories was my wife and I—we put out the story about Vanderbilt's transgender pediatric clinic early on, and then Matt made it a huge national story. He did a fantastic job, and together we were able to convince the legislature here in Tennessee to ban hormones, puberty blockers, and these surgeries for minors.

And so, by when was that?

When was that? Oh, that would have been last year, at the very beginning of the year, maybe even at the tail end of 2022. I'm terrible with dates, but it was, you know, it was fairly— that’s about?

Yeah, okay. And so, you know, as a byproduct of that trust you build, people start to think of you when they've got a story themselves that they feel like is newsworthy. And so one of those stories was someone came forward from Tractor Supply, and they had worked there a very long time, and they said, "You know, you would not believe the stuff happening at this company. I don't recognize it anymore. I love working here. This has been the best place, you know, best decision that I had made," at least I thought until recent years. And then they laid out the evidence of kind of what had been going on, and to be really candid with you, Jordan, I didn't really believe some of the stuff they were saying.

I had to send out a couple people from my team and myself to verify some of the things they had said, but it all checked out. And so I had sort of this epiphany where I said, "This is Tractor Supply." And for those who are not familiar, maybe in a different part of the world, Tractor Supply is like the most American American place you could go to shop. You know, I mean this place is filled with like American flags, and it's a farm store. You know, so I've got cattle, for instance, Jordan, and chickens, and so like we'd go there sometimes to get some things we needed if there was just like something we needed in a pinch, and my kids love that store.

So I realize as a byproduct of this whistleblower coming forward that I myself am helping fund things that are directly opposed to my values. You know, like this company was funding Pride events in my own community, in my own state. Things that I don't believe kids should be exposed to, no matter what the orientation of the people involved is. I think that it's wrong to expose kids to sexually charged material. So, you know, if I’m not okay with that, I assume a lot of other customers at Tractor Supply are not okay with it.

So I said, "You know what? We're going to go at this from a very different vantage point. I'm going to look at sort of the history of boycotts, what has worked, what has not worked, and I want to have something I believe is something we can replicate because if this is happening at Tractor Supply, this is happening in many other places."

So from that look backwards, I realized, number one, all of this craziness really has accelerated since George Floyd—that's where the vast majority of it originated and, and maybe not originated but where it exploded, I should say. And as a byproduct of that, the Overton window shifted wildly like we've never seen in my lifetime at least.

And so I realized for us to be able to take that back to some semblance of sanity, what we really have to do is make sure we're focused on the right targets at the right period of time and think about this strategically. We need to avoid the pitfalls of two of the biggest responses PR departments think about. Number one is, "Let this blow over." So these stories can't blow over; they can't be 24-hour news cycles.

And number two is that we understand that the old system was something where these big companies could go to major media outlets if they knew a bad story was coming. They could say, "Hey, listen, we're going to up our ad spend, kill the story." Well, we live in a new time now where that's not possible. And I know for a fact—I won't say who—but at least two of the companies that we've focused on tried that. They tried going to major media outlets to kill the story, and it worked in that area, but it wasn't enough to kill the story in total because we live in a dynamic where more people were watching my video than were watching those news networks’ reports on any given night.

So, you know, some things have fundamentally changed, and we saw pieces of that through what happened with Bud Light. And so we took the good pieces and left the bad pieces, which was that Bud Light was terribly unfocused in terms of telling people what they needed to do. And Bud Light was also an anomaly in the sense that they were lucky they had such a large product category because many people who were trying to punish Bud Light went out and bought a beer that actually was owned by AB, the same parent company that owns Bud Light.

So in many respects it was unsuccessful in that regard. But we said if we do this the right way and we sort of act as, you know, sort of a mouthpiece in general for like how you do this effectively, I think we can make real change happen. And so when it worked with Tractor Supply, we felt like our model was correct, and that essentially relies on shifting the window back to sanity by focusing on the companies first that primarily depend on the conservative consumer walking through their door.

And then as time goes on you kind of slowly shift to like the 50/50 what I call jump ball companies where it kind of depends on everybody, and then you can look at the ones where maybe conservative consumers are in the minority, which is few and far between, honestly. But once you get there, suddenly you realize, take an eagle-eye view of the situation, that these companies on the far left that would still adhere to these values are going to be looked at as the weird ones.

So that's sort of, you know, where we're hoping to get with this project. Since I joined forces with the Daily Wire Plus, we've built a comprehensive collection of premium content. Get the entire collection of mastering life, strengthen your relationship with my series on marriage and the series on masculinity. Discover your purpose in vision and destiny. Develop a vision for your own life; you need to do that.

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Okay, okay. So I have a bunch of questions that emerge from that. Let's walk through in chronological order, if you would, the companies that you've been going after and just tell the story of each company if you would. So you said you started out in this broad space not exactly going after corporations per se, but you were concentrating on the— in Tennessee?

Was it in Tennessee specifically?

Well, we've done it. You know, we've looked at it in total. We also made the film "The War on Children," which at this point is the most-watched documentary of the year. I think Matt will surpass us at some point with his new film, and I'm happy for him to do so because it's an incredible film. But that focused on it from a broad national level, all the issues facing kids, which included gender ideology. But yeah, in Tennessee, as far as a news story goes, that was a big focus for us a couple of years ago—making sure that at least here where we live, that that was something that would not be happening to children.

Okay, and when did the War on Children come out?

It came out in February of this year—February 24.

Okay, now before we go into the corporations, why don't you let everybody know who you are? I mean, like I said, for me, you burst onto the landscape relatively suddenly. So I just give us a history of your endeavors and how you got involved in this enterprise.

I think—it's interesting the way the world works now because it definitely can feel like that. You know, I think in any sense, no matter what somebody does, it's like people feel like, "Oh, they just kind of popped up." Right? I've been around a long time though. You know, I started out actually as a director, producer in Hollywood. So I directed Oscar-winning actors and actresses, some of the biggest music stars—people like Natalie Portman; you know Smashing Pumpkins, Mega Death—all across the board. And so that's a unique sort of unicorn-like background for somebody who comes out as openly conservative.

But in 2015, for sure—yeah, in 2015 I saw a very dark picture of what our country could become if we did not make the right decisions. And that was something that I think was largely informed by my family history. So my family originally is from Cuba, and so they lost everything to communism. And that anti-communist, you know, sort of education I got as a child about what it steals from you made me first a voracious reader because I realized that information was the most dangerous thing to authoritarians, especially on the left, but authoritarians in general.

And so I wanted to read everything. I wanted to know everything I could possibly know. And as a byproduct of that, I became increasingly conservative. You know, but when you try to make it in Hollywood, the reality is you simply cannot be open about it or you're going to be blacklisted. But in 2015, I decided, you know what? I have to be open about it, I’ve got to talk about it because we're at this crossroads where if we go down one of these roads, America can become Cuba. And if we head down that road, the future for my own kids is a dark one.

And my great-grandfather, he was like my father figure; he warned me so many times as a young man if you ever see these warning signs, you need to speak up and do whatever you can. And so at that point, you know, I had to drop the cowardice because there's a lot of cowardice involved in, you know, sort of that operative mode of thinking where you think, okay, I have to be quiet or I'm going to lose X, whatever that may be. Because that really is how people lose their countries—they lose their countries inch by inch through silence.

And so I said you know what? If this burns down my career and everything I built up, so be it. I believe in my ability to go and figure out something else. And so I came out, I endorsed Trump in 2015.

That's a crucial point.

That's a crucial point that you made there—two crucial points: the fact that you lose a country slides into totalitarianism an inch at a time, and it does that because people are unwilling to give up something they have. They think they have and will remain silent. And then you might say, well, what's the counterposition to that? And the counter position is that your best way forward is to say what you think. And if you're a credible and able person, then that will open up all sorts of new opportunities to you. It might mean that you lose some of the things that you depended on, but the thing you have to think about in that situation is that if you're in a situation now that is already so rotten that its maintenance requires your silence, you've already turned three-quarters into a braying donkey, if you want to use the Pinocchio imagery, or a slave.

And maybe you want to cling to your slavery, but if it means you’re voiceless then you've lost. That security is airy; it's an illusion. So you're giving up something that you actually no longer have. Now, you also had enough faith in yourself, or what, in the pursuit of the truth to motivate you to take the risk of—and exactly—what did you do in Hollywood? I mean, I don't mean as a career because you laid that out a bit, but how was it that you revealed your true proclivities?

Yeah, you know, there are so many really, I think, important poignant things you just said. I mean, one of them being that Hollywood and entertainment in general, and the mindset that sort of permeates throughout it, it is a prison, and it is sort of like a mental slavery. And I think that's one thing, there's just a really, I think, broken perception about because there's this belief, I think, that's pervasive throughout society that celebrities, let's say, have it all, right? And that they're just able to kind of have the world as their oyster. But the truth is, in my experience, having been very close to a lot of these big stars, is that I've never met a more depressed group of people who are more broken internally, who don't know who to trust, and who really have their life kind of in shambles in the most personal ways.

And so that was something I recognized early on in my career, and it made me second guess my own desire to be in that industry. But at the same time, I was a young dad who was focused on, I need to make money, I'm lucky to be here, I've got a great job that's, you know, really paying me well, I need to protect that for my kids. And that's something that a lot of people convince themselves, you know, sort of that manufactured consent of silence is borne through that excuse in your head that, "Oh well, I need the money to take care of my family," right?

But like you said, the belief is so important in yourself that you can exist in some other way. And anytime you're trapped in a system that requires your silence in order for you to be renumerated, that's probably a really dark system.

You know, it's not—

Yeah, right, exactly. And there's these people who say as well, when you break out of that that you're going to lose friends. Well, that itself is a really, really, you know, kind of poisoned well because the truth is they're not your friends if they don't know who you are. And if they don't love and appreciate you for who you truly are, so it's actually one of the most freeing things is for people to speak up to a group of people and realize, "Oh, these people who I sort of had this illusion were my friends, they're not actually my friends."

And so that's something I encourage young people to do all the time, is be yourself, be true to yourself and what you believe in because if you're putting on a mask for somebody else so that they will like you, they don't actually like you; they don't care about you. They care about this fictitious person you've made up because you believe that's what's likable. Just be you.

And so in that sense, you know, I think your desires, when it becomes, you know, sort of onto the subject of work or politics or what have you, it's sort of a similar thing. You just have to be honest and true, and that's what I've always believed. You know, that if I follow what I know is right, things are going to work out.

You know, and that's the hallmark of faith.

Well, that's the hallmark of faith. It's a kind of courage, first of all, to be willing to take the risks that go along with the truth. But it's also faith in the proposition that the truth does set you free. That doesn't mean that it won't come with interesting twists and turns, let's say, of the sort that you just described. You'll discover who your false friends are—well, that's painful, but it's useful.

The other thing that happens too, and I'm sure this has happened to you, although you haven't mentioned it yet, is that once you do say what you think, you may lose a certain number of people around you, although other relationships will strengthen. But there'll be all sorts of other people that flock to you in consequence who are, I wouldn't say precisely of like mind, but also willing to, let’s say, risk the truth.

And so whatever you lose on the friendship side, you'll gain in terms of true allies, and that's actually a good deal. Now, you have to wait out the lag period, you know, and there's some unpleasantness that might come along with that, but that's also partly why that faith is necessary.

Right? I mean, there's an assumption that I've come to which is twofold, I would say. The first is that there's no difference between speaking the truth and having the adventure of your life. Those are the same thing. And the second thing is that whatever happens to you, if you speak the truth, is the best thing that could happen under those circumstances, regardless of how it looks to you in the moment.

And you know, your momentary view isn't omniscient. And so the fact that, you know, imagine you suffer for three weeks and then things are really good for a year because of it—well, those three weeks are still going to be miserable. And if you used your judgment then, you'd think, "Oh God, this is a complete catastrophe."

But you don't have that longer-term view, and I think faith in the redeeming power of the truth is equivalent to the longest possible term view you can hold.

So, all right. So, you were in Hollywood working, what period of time was that? And do you want to just flesh out what you did a bit so we have some sense of what it was that you were involved in and also what you risked when you decided you were going to make what you actually thought clear?

So, in 2015, that's when I came out and endorsed Trump in the Republican primary, and I did so publicly. I had a following already at the time because I guess I was sort of a new crop of directors where we had kind of our own following online. And a large reason I even broke into the industry without any family connections or being from a wealthy family or anything like that was because I was lucky enough to kind of like break into the industry at a time where digital was starting to be a problem for film.

And so I was able to come into record labels and say, "Hey, we can do the music videos you guys want at half the price you guys are doing them already because digital doesn't require the expensive film." And this is sort of the area that we're fantastic at. And as a byproduct of that, we were able to grow quite a successful company.

And so I think at our strongest point, we had over a dozen directors across the world—Europe, Canada, US—and in general, we did a lot of different music videos, commercials, documentaries, and then we worked with big, you know, motion pictures like Paramount Pictures. We did a lot of projects with them. So, things that we would do that, you know, people would sort of be familiar with is, you know, any of the big movies from Paramount, basically, like Transformers, Terminator—anytime they had a music video, you know, that would air with the film or on MTV and stuff like that, we would do a lot of those.

You know, tons of music videos in general—that's sort of the side of the business everybody likes because they're all popular, you know, those get hundreds of millions or billions of views and so people like that stuff. But honestly, the stuff that makes money is the commercial stuff. And you know, so we did a lot of that stuff as well and in general, you know, it's something that makes a decent living and everything, you know, I'm not going to lie; it's, you know, great in that respect.

But if it requires your silence, it's not worth it. And so that's sort of where we made the decision, my wife and I, that this was not right for us. And we were also at the same time sort of having our faith transformed in many different ways, or strengthened I should say. And so, you know, that choice to leap strengthened our faith because as dangerous as it was to do, it required a level of trust in God I had not handed over previously.

And I had always been reluctant to hand anybody that trust because I was a very precocious kid. I was all about like, you know, some sense of leadership and control and anything I did so that everything was perfect, right? And that was the first time in my life I just handed over control and said, "All right, I'm going to jump," you know? And we literally we picked up our kids and we moved across country to Tennessee, and that would be about six years ago.

And it was not only the best decision we've ever made outside of getting married and having kids, but it was one that it really set me up to have the courage to be able to do the things we're doing now because we trusted God, and God was there for us every step of the way in ways that, you know, I'm still figuring out where I'm constantly surprised by just sort of the amazing nature of how things can happen, right?

And some of them happen in ways where it just feels miraculous. And we didn't know anybody here; we just jumped. We knew this was where we were supposed to go, and we did it, and it all worked out. And as far as these projects, I just became increasingly vocal online about my political views and, you know, we had a number of different projects like our film where we were trying to make as much of a difference as we can but I always go back to with this project, what became different inside of me is that for a very long time I had this belief, sort of a naïve belief, that, "Hey, we've got this party of people whose job it is to fight for us." Right?

So like if we get the right people elected, they're going to fight; they're going to win. And it's a very naïve belief. Yes, we do need those people in office because there are going to be change-makers. But I think one of the great mistakes we've made on the conservative side is depending on these people to save us. They're not going to save us! We need to take individual responsibility, and I think that's what's been missing.

And if you look at the left and how they've arrived at this moment where they have total control of every cultural institution in our country—and could argue globally—they got there not through the trust of their leaders but because they have an incredibly active activist base that is willing to do whatever is necessary to win. And our side has kind of lacked in a lot of effects when it comes to that because I think it comes down to honestly just the very simple truth that a lot of us tend to be individualists and on the left they're collectivists, right?

And so they're willing to sort of be like bees where, you know, they'll all die for the queen bee, right? And they're willing to kind of like carry out whatever it is that's necessary for the survival of their ideology. For us, we're all kind of individual.

And I think one of the things we have to do is be able to match the energy that they have, but in very intelligent ways. And that's kind of what we've done to approach this project is make sure that we're active in every sense—that, you know, we're inspiring people to believe you can make a difference, one person can make a difference. Every person on this chain of events, from the person who's the initial whistleblower to us at the company to the very end where we're in conversations with the executives, every individual involved is necessary to be able to bring these wins that we've been bringing where we bring a bunch of corporations back to sanity.

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Yep, okay. So a couple of things that I wanted to go through with you there. So yeah, you said you came out in 2015 in Hollywood, supporting Trump. So that was pretty daring and pretty early. I mean, it seems to me that 2014-2015 is about when things had got out of hand enough to go sideways. Something shifted at that point, and part of that I think was probably the increasing dominance of cell phone technology and the fact that everybody's so interconnected and that information was moving around so insanely fast.

But something definitely shifted. I started to become aware of things at the University of Toronto, for example, that just hadn't been there before. My graduate students were starting to talk to me about being afraid to broach certain topics in class—like that had never happened before. I was never nervous at Harvard or at the University of Toronto to review what I had learned from the research literature to my undergraduates, and my attitude was too that if any student was perturbed by the content, they were more than welcome to leave, and I made that clear, and I never had any trouble.

But then all of a sudden, you know, my students were starting to report to me that they were nervous, and then I started to get nervous about talking about gender differences, which is a core element of my field, actually, because I'm a personality psychologist.

So, and the university started to move in a real DEI direction. Something shifted in 2014. Okay, so now we've established that you had a genuine career, that you were up and coming, that you were on the cutting edge of the technological revolution in Hollywood, and so you had something at stake. You decided that you were going to publicly support Trump, and you said at the same time that you were undergoing something approximating a re-evaluation of your faith, and that you and your wife—because you mentioned her—had decided to, what, in a sense, throw caution to the wind.

So tell me a little bit more about how you came out in support of Trump, and why you did it then? How you discussed that with your wife and how that was tangled up with your progression, let's say, with regard to your faith?

Yeah, you know, my wife is just the treasure of my life in so many ways because she's the person who made me believe I could just be me, you know? And I didn’t need to—I didn't need to put anything else on. And that's kind of, I think, the mark of a great woman and a great partner in general in life is that they're going to give you that courage to just be you.

And, you know, as much as many of us just want to have that innately, sometimes we don't, and you need that validation in your life that like, "Hey, you be you—we will take whatever comes along with that." And so my wife, she's as conservative as I am! I think maybe even on some things she might even beat me. And she was a big believer from the very beginning. She grew up in the South that California was a horrible place, but increasingly during the Obama years, it got much worse.

And you could see the writing on the wall. I mean, to give you an insight visually—because I'm a very visual person—the day we moved out of California, I will never forget this. We used to take our kids all the time to Malibu Pier; they have a breakfast spot there and stuff, and our kids just always loved that spot. It was kind of like our family’s spot. We went every week pretty much.

And so we went there as our last thing all together in California, and we were in the sand and our kids are playing, and our youngest one, who at the time probably was around 2 years old, she says, "Dad, what's that?" She said it in a much cuter voice than that because she's still trying to pronounce things correctly. I looked down; it's a hypodermic needle! And that to me was like—I still had that feeling, "Am I doing the right thing? Right? Am I crazy doing this?"

You know, I looked down and I saw that needle, and it was like confirmation from the heavens, like, "You're not only doing the right thing, this is the writing on the wall, this is where this place is going." And it couldn't have been, I think, any more eye-opening as to what the future was going to look like. And it's just like all encapsulated in that little moment, this little beautiful, precious, innocent child—"What's that, Daddy?"—and it's, you know, this symbol of the brokenness of the state in California and really of leftism in total and what it produces because it's anti-family, it's anti-child, and it's really producing a future where hedonism reigns, and hedonism has more rights than goodness.

And I think that that's something that was definitely very motivating to me going forward that this was a fight not just about Republican vs. Democrat, right versus left, which can be kind of boring. It was really a fight of good versus evil. And that's something that became more apparent in the years afterward, and I think is the most apparent it's ever been now. I think you even have very non-political people now waking up and going, "This is sort of good versus evil—that's what it looks like."

And I think that's going to become increasingly the conversation because, you know, I've got friends who had been atheists their whole life, and I find it fascinating. I have never seen a wave of atheists turning to God the way I have in recent years.

Yeah, yeah, that's for sure.

It really is fascinating! And for them, you know, because they're very analytical, very based in like sort of like what can I see, measure, feel, and touch, right? And for them, the thing that turns them is not historical evidence, it's not things like that. The thing that has been turning them is just simply visually watching the world around them move and feeling the evil that is coming forth in the United States from the left, primarily.

And that has been moving, and you put your finger on that—you put your finger on that with regards to the war on children. I mean, I haven't seen anything worse in my entire life, and I've spent so—personally, you know, what I've seen firsthand, but also what I've investigated historically. I don't think I've ever seen anything worse than in relationship to children that rivals or exceeds anything I only, fortunately, read about in relationship, say, to Auschwitz.

But it also rivals the worst of the Japanese atrocities in China, which were the worst things that I'd ever come across historically. And so it's a level of pathology that I would have regarded as inconceivable, especially with regards to both the medical and the psychological community. Like, as far as I can tell, what the medical community is doing to children—and we know now, it's about 8,000 young women, as far as I can tell—that is literally a crime against humanity.

Because minors cannot provide informed consent to procedures like that; anyone with any sense understands that. If informed consent means anything, it means that minors cannot consent to their own. And yet no one's being prosecuted—not to the degree they should have—and we know that the scale of this is much wider than this mere 8,000 girls. Merely like, it's a terrible number of people. We've turned the country upside down for far less consequential occurrences than that.

And so, like, I can't characterize that as anything other than evil. And you know, we should—let's leave that term for when it's actually useful. And that does point to something moving below the surface that’s more than merely political.

And there is a transformation of belief in the air; there's no doubt about that. And it is, you know, in large part for the reasons that you're describing.

Okay, so delve a bit more into the faith element, if you would, and where did you move in Tennessee?

So we're just outside of Nashville. We went full farm. We've got a farm; yeah, we've got cattle, we've got chickens. You know, like, we went big. We were like, we're going to change our life; we're going to drink raw milk, we're going to have cows, we're going to do the whole thing!

And you know, I think it's something interesting as you were speaking. You know, I never gave much credence to the idea of parallel universes. You know, it just seemed kind of, you know, complex. But then again, I don't doubt God's ability to create complex things, right? But the change you're describing that happened around those Obama years in the United States, at times I almost wonder if we slipped into a parallel universe because the things that you were just describing are so absurd—8,000 women, you know, many girls having double mastectomies.

Those are all girls! Those are all girls—all minor! The 8,000 figure—all of them under 18! That—that's not the full total of the double mastectomies, that’s just minors in the 8,000 children. And you know, I've interviewed one of them, Leila Jane, who at 13 had hers.

[Applause]

The only answer I have is evil or a parallel universe.

Yeah, well, it's not only—see, it's even worse than that because it's not only that these procedures, which are experimental and sadistic and profit-oriented and ideologically addled and cruel, and productive and rife with side effects, but it's not only that those are being conducted on mass—lied about! This is something that never happens! It's like, "No, it's happening, and it's happening a lot."

I know, for example, there's a black market in puberty blockers. So whatever the figures are for children that are put on puberty blockers, which is part of the pathway to surgical transformation, the true number of kids who are experimenting with puberty blockers is much greater than that. Yeah, but so it's happening; it's happening at a large-scale. The people who are doing it are lying about doing it and covering it up. And this is the capper—the opposition to it is essentially criminalized.

And so that's like, that's a perfect trifecta. So, you know, I'm in trouble in Canada, for example, because, yeah, they’re making a lot of money off this, which is a whole layer of sick. But, you know, what this is like, it would be like if I went on my social media channels and I started doing heroin in front of people and I started telling them how good it feels and how great it is, and some people pick up heroin as a byproduct of it and they kill themselves on it—that's on me, you know? That’s principally on me! It doesn’t matter how good it made me feel, it’s still something that is going to have the capacity to break and kill people.

And that's what this ideology is, and when you're doing that especially to children, I mean there’s something about that that is just incredibly demonic.

Yeah, it’s beyond—it’s every—well, you know, I talked to, um, who broke the WPATH files—Shellenberger. I talked to him about this when he broke the WPATH files, and he had said—he had watched my conversation with Abigail Shrier. When I came, I was ill for a while, and when I came back and hit my podcast to get hard, the first podcast I did was with Abigail Trier, who wrote "Irreversible Damage."

And I was very nervous about doing the podcast because at that point your reputation was on the line if you objected to the transgender surgery crowd. And so, we walked through a book which is, and I looked into the surgical procedures, which are like—they're brutal and experimental beyond belief. And that's what I wanted to point out.

You know, Shellenberger talked to me about that because he watched that podcast. And, you know, Shellenberger is a pretty brave journalist, and his basic response was something like this: “This is so awful; it must be exaggerated. There's no way it can be happening.” And it took him basically two years to wrap his head around the fact that, no, this was happening, that major—the major medical establishment, American Medical Association, American Psychological Association, were not only on board with this, but promoting and persecuting people who objected to it, you know?

And it's really something, it's really something that's actually, as you also alluded to, it’s really incomprehensible. It’s so terrible, it’s no wonder people don’t believe it, right? It’s— it’s no wonder that people are turning a blind eye to it because it's very—but it also makes me think, you know, that must have been what was happening in Nazi Germany when rumors of the persecution of the Jews and their demolition and all the other people the Nazis went after started to circulate. And people weren't nearly as connected then as they are now. They—it was going to be much more easy for them to turn the blind eye to things they couldn't possibly believe were happening.

Well, we're in that situation now. It's so sickening, I just can't believe that it's happening. And I can't believe that it's happening while people are proclaiming that that's the moral pathway. It's like, what the heck?

Okay, so fine. So fine, you saw something was happening in 2015. You had a good career in Hollywood. You decided that you were going to move to Tennessee, to Nashville, which, Nashville, two thumbs up for Nashville—it’s a great place—and you've done that and then, okay, so let's get the timeline going here. And so you started—the activism, the more conservative level public activism, did that initiate on your part with the transgender issue and then move from there?

Well, I had been outspoken about education and mandates and things like that around COVID, but it's one of those central issues where actually I was going to say this: people should know you, and I didn't plan to talk about the transgender issue. Honestly, but it's—it’s actually important because I have noticed this issue, more than any other issue, that issue has been what has activated more people especially in spheres of influence that have never involved themselves for very practical business-oriented reasons into this sphere.

And to say, “I am going to fight and put it all on the line because this is a line that means so many other things.” You know, what they've done to children tells you everything about what they're willing to do in every other sense. That’s a truth that, I'd say, the most intelligent people I know have all figured out—this line means a thousand other things and they're all supremely evil.

And that's why you're seeing so many prominent people that you would have never expected stand up, speak up, put their money and their time into the fight, like Elon Musk. You know, I mean, if you had told me years ago, “Elon Musk is going to come out and support your movie and promote it,” you know, and it’s going to end up getting almost 60 million views largely as a byproduct of him and Donald Trump Jr. promoting it.

I would have said you're crazy because I'm very practical, and I recognize as somebody who owns all these incredible businesses even if he does agree with me, that's a very dangerous position for him to take with the government contracts and things like that that he has to deal with. So you have to ask yourself, why would somebody like that be willing to risk everything that they've achieved?

And it's very simple: this line marks an evil that will beset not just our nation but the world for the next generation and the generation after it. And you're going to have to get to the darkest of places for a small group of people to rise up and do whatever is necessary to bring back some semblance of sanity and liberty. I don't want us to get there.

And that's the thing that some people would say, like, “Oh well, you're a fascist, you're a radical," or whatever it may be. What I think is actually fascist is what's going on now, where you've got these people in these institutions who believe it is fundamentally their right to shove their ideology down everybody else's throat. That's what's happening in corporate America.

That's what's happening in education, happening all over the place. That's what I find fundamentally to be wrong, but it has a cascading effect that will continue on and will destroy the lives of our kids and grandkids. And so I think it's important people recognize that about that transgender issue when it comes to kids.

It is something that means so many other things.

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A major kerfuffle that really hasn't died down around me since, and the videos were essentially objecting to the government of Justin Trudeau deciding that it was okay to put words in people's mouths, including mine, with regards to the transgender issue.

And I felt two things at that point: I thought, "Okay, well you've jumped out of your bailiwick there, buddy, because you don't get to—there was never legislation in any Western country ever that compelled speech among private citizens." Ever.

So there were certain types of commercial speech that were regulated, but for commercial reasons. And so then I thought, too, well now we have this idea that we can mess with the fundamental category of sex and make that a social construction. And I thought, “Well, that’s the most fundamental perceptual category I think—sex—it's more fundamental than black and white, up and down, night and day, male and female. If you don’t get that right, you don’t reproduce, and so that disappeared 650 million years ago!

Like the sexual differentiation is hardwired at the most fundamental level. And what that means is that if—[Applause]—I warned the Canadian Senate about this in 2016. I said if you start to confuse young people about sex, you will produce an epidemic among young women like a contagious epidemic. Because I knew the literature on contagious psychological epidemics; it goes back 300 years, and it's always young women.

It’s likely because they hit puberty earlier than young men and so have to contend with the brute force of biological transformation when they’re still relatively immature, comparatively speaking, and so for whatever reason, they're more susceptible to psychological epidemics. And so, you know, you have two things going on: you enforce the lie that men can be women, and so you prime people for the lie and then you confuse the most vulnerable people and tilt them into like an irrecoverable pathology.

And then it got even worse because I didn't think at that time that we would have an epidemic of surgery. Like, you know, I have an imagination for evil, but I got to say it didn’t extend that far because it seems absurd.

Well, it is. It is—it’s the ultimate in evil clown-ish, like it’s the worst thing that you can imagine. It's got this horrible element of satirical black— the blackest of satirical comedy, you know? And you can see that in the transgender movement on the political side, you know, in all sorts of other ways because the [Applause]—and so it's got that dark edge to it.

And, you know, when that was a fringe thing for theaters—well, it wasn't disrupting all of the world. But when it moves to the center—whenever the fringe moves to the center, all hell breaks loose because the fringe is multiplicity and the center can't be multiplicity. Obviously, it's not a center then; it's chaos.

So, okay, so War on Children, investigation into the transgender phenomenon. Now that—now you start taking on the corporations, and you start with Tractor Supply. So walk us through that story, if you would, and then let's walk through the corporations one by one and if you would detail out how your strategy developed and your influence grew.

Yeah, so with Tractor Supply, essentially the way we approached it is number one, we had to make sure we didn't play into the PR strategy of "this will blow over." So what we did is we said, "Okay, the first video is going to be a knockout where it's got to be really strong, but we can't put everything because we need to be able to have pieces of information every day just dripping out that you include many of the pieces that are still very impactful." So we hold back some of the stuff that we would consider the best stuff as long as we can make sure we have a decent portion of sort of explaining the problem in that first video.

Our first video on a company tends to be somewhere between seven and 10 minutes. Any longer than that, people—you know, I think if you're talking about the attention span of millions of people who are swiping on social media, you start to lose people, you know? So we stick to that time span, and then each day we sort of drip out different pieces of what we've found through our investigations and our investigations are a combination of what the whistleblowers bring forward to us and then secondary we do really great open-source investigations on the companies.

You'd be shocked, Jordan—actually, I don't think you would be because of your background in psychology. I think a lot of people would be shocked by the types of interviews that executives at major companies grant where there's like five views ever all time on the interview. But they do it because of their own narcissism, you know?

So—and they're filled with mistakes. And so nobody's ever really gone through all these, logged them, cut them, labeled them, and saved them for the future. We've been doing that now for a couple of months on a lot of companies—companies that we've never said a word about; we've already got every crazy interview their executives have ever given, and we've got them cut, labeled, and ready to go when we move on to them.

The other part of this is we recognize going one by one is important because just like, you know, any sort of hunt when you've got animals all together as a herd, they're much stronger. So if you try to take on Corporate America by going and attacking a group of them who are all together as 100 corporations, you're going to get nowhere. But if you focus in on one and make them the target of the ire of customers that they need in their stores, that’s a totally different prospect.

Because at the end of the day, these are public companies by and large that we do this with because private companies are a little bit different in terms of their ability to kind of wiggle and skate out of a lot of this. But with public companies, the board has a fiduciary duty to shareholders, so if the board is aware that conservative consumers make up a cross-section of their customer base that is anything beyond 20%, it's malpractice for them to allow a story like this to go and grow legs for over a month and reach hundreds of millions of people because each company we focus on has generated hundreds of millions of impressions.

So that’s better than a lot of national ad campaigns can do, and it—it’s—and that’s not counting, by the way, the mainstream media coverage of what we've done. I don’t even know what those numbers would be.

I mean, I'm less and less impressed by the stuff that they're able to pull in because it seems like people like yourself or me, they're dying—they really are—they're dying breed! But in general, you know, for these companies, they're a suicidal breed. They're suicidal, that too.

But in general, you know, we're crossing into this new paradigm of how information works, right? And so I think this is one of those early stories where corporations are having to learn some very hard lessons. But I will say a lot of them are learning quickly because if you look at sort of what we did, in the timeline, we went from Tractor Supply took about three weeks to get a statement from them where they changed all their policies.

I mean, they dropped every woke thing that we had put out there. Then after that, we focused on John Deere—for those who are unfamiliar with John Deere, big tractor company. I mean, we're talking again about a company that depends on probably 90% conservative consumers, right?

And for them, it took about three weeks as well to get them to flip. Then we got to Harley. Harley was one that I think was psychologically very important to what we have done going forward. But you know what's interesting, Jordan, is that they're one of the smallest companies that we have flipped.

But I would say psychologically maybe the most important one because their CEO was not a typical CEO like many of the CEOs of these companies that we have flipped. They're kind of agnostic about the whole thing, if not opponents of the wokeness, but they didn't know what the heck was going on at their own companies and there's this pervasive ignorance about how bad it's gotten.

And then they're like, "Oh gosh, we didn't know that. Yeah, let's fix it." But in the case of Harley, this CEO is a true believer. This is a guy who founded the B-Team with Richard Branson.

The B-Team's explicit purpose is to force wokeness through Corporate America by bringing in new leaders who believe in the woke ideology in general, you know? So they want to do this on a global scale, and they've been quite successful at a number of companies forcing these new leaders in and bringing their ideologies with them.

And so that was one where I said, "You know what? They may dig in their heels, but we need to do this right to where if they do dig in their heels, they're not going to recover from it because we have to make this just absolutely clear to the consumer how far gone they are from the values of their consumer base."

And I think we did a good job of that. Again, we started with the long video explaining the problem, but we had such a large amount of material. You know, like one of the videos we held back initially was the interview of their CEO describing himself as the Taliban of sustainability.

And so for people, I thought it was very important we break that video down: Taliban of sustainability, what does that actually mean? To me, what it means, if you describe yourself that way, the Taliban of anything means you are willing to do anything for what you believe in. There is no red line you won't cross. You are a terrorist for that cause.

That's what it means to me! And sustainability is just a buzzword to describe wokeness in total, right? So, I hear when I hear "Taliban of sustainability," I hear, "I am a terrorist for this left-wing ideology; I will do anything to make sure that it comes to fruition."

And if you look at sort of the policies they had adopted, well, it's very clear that seems like that was the direction they were going. And he even had an explicit, you know, desire to reshape capitalism, is the way they say it. Marxists love to do that, you know? Reshape capitalism.

You can eliminate cronyism from capitalism, but that's not what they were describing. They weren't describing removing cronyism; they were describing a system where essentially, you know, businesses operate as a social benefit to society. That's not what capitalism was ever meant to be, and the way they describe it is just a pathway to pure Marxism.

And it's something actually I think is a very important, interesting point that I think you will find interesting and maybe have some things to say on, you know? I think coming from a family who had communism steal everything, I think it's very important people understand the modern left.

They are a new age version of the Communist Party, and when I say that, there's some fundamentally important differences. But I think once people hear them, if they scoffed at the beginning at me using the term communist to describe what they're doing, I think they won't after they hear this. You know, the fundamental difference here is that they no longer believe in the need to seize the means of production because they realized something incredibly important.

The power structure on the left realized that optically it's going to be really hard to sell the idea of communism to a populace who understands that communism killed so many people in such a brutal way, right? Like that's not going to be a popular sell to come out and say, "Hey, we want to be Communists, we want to take over industry, we want to control your life."

That's not something people generally are going to be really amiable to, right? Not if you say it openly! What they realized was you don't need to go seize the means of production; you just need to control the minds of the people in charge of production.

And if people doubt that that's the path we're on, look no further than big tech—look at Google, look at Facebook. Every one of these companies acts as an arm of the state's ruling party. That's not capitalism! That's not, you know, business just doing its thing, answering to the free market.

We fundamentally shifted from a system where customer is king to one where the needs and desires of the Democratic Party are king. And secondary to that are the needs and desires of Black Rock, State Street, and Vanguard.

Now we're fundamentally shifting the reality back with what we're doing to say, "No, actually, customer’s king!" Because, you know what? If you own John Deere, you own Tractor Supply, you own Harley-Davidson, guess who's not walking in your door to buy your products? Black Rock's not! Vanguard's not, State Street's not, the Democratic Party’s not! My people are!

And so fundamentally shifting that reality, you know, I think psychologically a lot of important things happened from forcing Harley to change. One of those things was that people felt like, "Okay, one maybe a fluke; two possibly just extremely lucky—three companies in a row." It was like, "Oh, this is actually working! This is a trend! This is something that can be replicated!"

And we are a force in the market where we're shifting, you know, in the case of Tractor Supply, it was an almost $3 billion loss in market cap during our campaign. With John Deere, almost $10 billion loss in market cap during our campaign. $10 billion!

You know, and as you look at sort of what's happening in the market, one of the fears that a lot of people tried to sell about, "You can't leave wokeness, it's going to lose you money," right? Every company that has come out and rejected these policies as a product of our campaigns has seen their stock go up the day that they announced that they were dropping these policies.

Every single one had their stock go up the day they announced. That's not an accident! The market's not going to punish you because retail is more involved than ever in the market. And these bigger players like Vanguard, State Street, and Black Rock, they actually, I think, don't know what to do with us.

They don't know what to do now that there's an activated consumer base on the right who is willing to use their wallet as a weapon because they fundamentally understand that I'm right in terms of the thesis that at the end of the day, you need us to walk in the doors. If we don't walk in the doors at these places, you're toast! You can go and have institutional investors try to prop you up till the next quarter, but when you have to report earnings and people see that you had a really sizable loss in one strategic area of your business—or maybe the business in total—you're going to have big problems!

You're not going to get your bonus! There's financial consequences for the decisions you've been making. And so, that's what we're trying to make abundantly clear. So as a byproduct of that, one of these other positive things is psychologically, in the minds of executives, okay, things have changed now.

Now these people are somebody you need to be afraid of. If they come to your door, they mean business; they have the ability to reach hundreds of millions of eyeballs, and you don't want that. You don't want to be the story anymore! So we fundamentally altered our approach a little bit.

Now instead of just going straight with the story, we started to reach out ahead of time and say, "Hey, we've been investigating. Here’s what we found. We're planning a story, and essentially, you know, we want to make sure our story is right. If you have any corrections or you want to let us know about any changes you're considering, as a byproduct of reading our reporting, let us know. You have until this date to give us a comment, correction, or feedback as far as changes go."

And we offer off-the-record conversation between Robbie and your ex if they want to talk through this issue at all. We're happy to do so. And I've had those off-the-record talks with a lot of these companies and their executives, and they've frankly been very productive talks. You know, I'm very pragmatic.

I mean, to them, I'm sure they would love if I was like, you know, kind of an idiot and I was like trying to strong-arm them into this, but I'm not. The truth is, for us, it's fundamentally simple. We're going to report one way or the other; it’s just either going to be about your past failures or you changing things.

That's up to the companies though, you know. We're not like these shakedown artists on the left; we're not asking for money! We don't want money! Which a lot of them I think find quite surprising, like I’m willing to fund whatever we need to myself, and then we've got great subscribers on X who help fund our research team growing because I'd say the hardest part of what we do right now is we've got over 5,000 whistleblowers!

So it's important that people continue doing that—5,000? Yes, 5,000! And we don't want to discourage people from doing it because we're scaling up our team to be able to meet the needs of the number of whistleblowers we're getting. And they're fantastic! You know, people are sending us evidence probably right now as you and I—

How many corporations are implicated in that network of 5,000? We don’t have a solid number on that because there is crossover between the 5,000, so you know, maybe 10 of them are at the same company, type thing.

I don’t think we've broken that down to see what that actually looks like but, I mean, we're talking well into the hundreds and hundreds, if not over—so that's the order of magnitude.

Anyhow, and so then we have metrics for, you know, how do we do this to make sure we choose the right companies to be able to move us in the direction we want to go to sort of change the norm? You know, because I'm a big believer in everything I do in life, I always teach my kids this: any big decision you're going to make or change you're trying to make, always try to go outside of yourself, go into an eagle-eye view, you know, you're just kind of looking at things from overhead in as unbiased of a way as you possibly can.

And when I look at sort of the lay of the land here—as if this is a battlefield—I see very clearly you have to make the right decisions or you're going to get, you know, cut off at the knees very easily.

And so for us it's pick the right companies, and those metrics are fairly simple right now. It's like we look at who the customer base is, we look at the regions that they do well in, we look at, you know, what do they sell, who are they selling to in general? Because there are different subgroups within the demographics of who their customers are.

And then secondary to that—and this is a big one, and I think this is more of a field than a science—we do look very deeply at the board and at the executives and the psychology of who they are as people. So we look at the psychology of these board members because I think that gives us a really strong window into, you know, sort of how we fix things, right?

Because each one of them is different—some of them are true believers, some of them are not, and they're just simply there at that moment in time because after George Floyd, they gave license to these crazed lunatics in the HR and PR departments to go and apply all these policies that would mean that that executive was not a racist because that's really what they were concerned about.

They didn't want to be pitted as a racist because at the time they felt like that would have been fatal. And now we're in a fundamentally different time because four years-ish later, the whole companies had to experience what this looks like, right?

And so what was sold to them as, you know, this unifying, diverse, inclusive thing is anything but! Everybody's experienced it! They'd rather, you know, have their eyeballs poked out than do another DEI training because frankly, we all know that it's mind-numbingly stupid and it's beyond farce because it's simply propaganda at this point.

I've done over a hundred of these trainings, these big DEI trainings that the major companies use. They are some of the most ludicrous trash I've ever read in my life, and every single one of them has one thing that I found in common: they pretty much all have resources, okay? At the end of the training, they've got this resources section. I have yet to find one resource that is even center lane politically.

Every single resource that is recommended is extremely far left, and the number one most recommended resource in these DEI trainings will always be kind of darkly funny to me. It's Ibram Kendi's “How to Be an Anti-Racist.” Right!

I find it really ironic since these are major corporations telling their employees, "You should read this book as part of your DEI training," and the book says to be an anti-racist you must be an anti-capitalist! That is the thesis, the core thesis of the book. And you've got the largest companies in the Fortune 100 telling their employees, "Yeah, go read this guy's book!" It's signing your own death warrant ideologically, which is the most bizarre part of the whole thing.

But the executives at the top are largely ignorant to it. You know, you've got a couple of true believers, but most of them tell me in truth—and I actually believe them—that they had no idea! When I show them these trainings, they’re like in shock, and they go, "Oh no, we've got to get rid of this crazy!" And they always go, “We didn’t know we had activists in the company!”

Yes, every single one of these companies has activists across the board in these different areas. And what people don't realize at these executive positions, because they've largely worked to get there over the course of some odd, like, 20-30 years, is they don't realize the kids coming out of college today are fundamentally different from the kids you went to college with.

You went to college in a time where people went to college to become a professional at something. Kids today—the profession, the major, it's all a veneer in large part for many of the kids—not all of them, but for many of them in truth, what they're meant to become as a byproduct of going to college is a trained activist!

So they go into whatever job they've been given a diploma to fit into with the intent purpose of spreading poison. Is this ideology— you know, I mean they're spreading the poison; it's become a cancer throughout these companies.

But that is their purpose! They believe the same way that somebody who is religious believes that they need to evangelize. These people are religiously captured by this ideology. It is their God.

And so the way that you are willing, if you're a religious person, to do anything for God, these people are willing to do the same for their ideology. And the sooner we understand that, the sooner we're going to understand why it requires us to speak up.

Because I will say this, and this may be the most important thing I say throughout this whole thing, the biggest mistake conservatives and normal people have made over the last 30 years is not only celebrating but promoting the idea we should be a silent majority. Silent majorities get people killed! Silent majorities destroy countries; they are the most poisonous thing you can possibly be because it allows a very loud deranged minority to take over the entirety of your country, every major institution, and they guide the path of the future that your children are going to have to live in.

It is shameful to be a silent majority! There has never been a time where it was more important for people to understand that fundamental fact. It is time for people to take personal responsibility. Stop waiting for a politician to save you! Step up, do the work yourself to make a difference where you live because the truth is, if we all did that, and we all took personal responsibility, and you took that eagle-eye view we talked about earlier, you would see very clearly that each one of these pockets of our country was protected as a byproduct of each individual community taking control and saying, "We're not going to allow this crazy here."

If that was happening instead of people waiting for a politician to save them, we'd be in a much better place. And don't get me wrong; voting is very important. Who we elect is very important, but more important is what we do on an individual level.

And people need to start believing in their ability to make a difference again.

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I find it very difficult to disagree with any of that. I'm going to go through your—I’m going to summarize the strategy that you laid out and then I'm going to zero in on the board analysis a little bit, and then I want to talk to you about the three companies that you’ve gone after: Tractor Supply, John Deere, and Harley-Davidson and the strategy that goes along with that.

So, you said you start a video. You start by distributing a video that's about 7 to 10 minutes long, so—and that captures attention optimally, but also is long enough to provide some real information. You save some of the material that your crew has documented so that you can do a protracted campaign.

So you're not part of the 24-hour news cycle. You do—you investigate all the open-source material that a given company has produced so that you can use their own words as an illustration of either what they're doing or what they know or what they don't know. You go after companies one by one.

You're focusing on companies that have at least a 20% conservative market share, and you pointed out that if the company is doing anything to violate their implicit contract or explicit contract with those consumers, that they're in breach of their fiduciary duty. And then you talked about doing a board analysis, and one of the things you pointed out there, which is you can't make this stuff up.

You know, I mean, I've been struck as you have by the fact that so the first question for me was why in the world is Corporate America promoting an anti-AP radical anti-capitalist quasi-Marxist postmodern activist movement because it's preposterous—it’s like, don't these people know that they're funding and promoting a viewpoint that's worse than Marxism, that's completely antithetical to everything that they themselves not only purport to believe in but have actually lived by in some sense for the real actors, let's say?

Now your solution to that, and I think it's the right one in all but the minimum number of cases, is that, well, they don't know. And you think, well, can people possibly be that blind? But one of the things that I've learned is that—and maybe this is even more true for conservatives—it's possible, you know, lots of people live in 1995 and it’s not 1995.

It's not even 2015, and in some ways, it's not even 2024 because things are changing so fast, we have no idea where we are even. And so I think you're right with regards to these boards, and this is actually a positive thing in a way.

It's like the people who are putting forth these policies are A: trying to protect themselves against the accusations of racism that could bring them down as individual actors, and B: they're not interested in the systems of ideas that underlie these movements, let's say. They have no idea that the systems of ideas exist. They have no idea how pathological they are, and they have almost no appreciation whatsoever for the force of philosophical ideas.

And that might also be part of the conservative temperament, right? Because conservatives tend to be detail-oriented and practical, and so when you talk to them about abstracted ideas, they're not that interested and they also don't think they have much power.

And that's really a bad idea, especially the situation that we're in right now. But you know, it was striking to me the fact that you concentrated on your realization, your discovery, that most of the people who are involved in this at the corporate level actually have no idea whatsoever what they're fostering. They don’t know who Robin DiAngelo is—no clue! They don’t know that! No, no idea! They don’t know anything about Ibram Kendi! They don’t know anything about the implicit association test! Republicans don’t know anything about the implicit association test!

And the fact that it's provided hypothetical scientific justification for the idea of implicit bias and the whole bloody woke movement. And so—and it's partly because, well, the people are still there. So their names, their names of their department are going to change, and they'll use some new terminology to describe what they're doing, but as you already pointed out, they're committed bloody activists!

And you’d have to fire all of them to actually get rid of them— I mean, that's one approach anyways! Some people can be salvaged, but they're more like the board of governors types that you described that don’t know what the hell's going on.

So, okay, so danger of power for you. Let's start there. Danger of power, y'know?

Yeah, yep. So danger of power, you know, I take that very seriously. So, you know, in our team, first of all, we have a set of ethics that we abide by. You know, like one is, you know, we will not go and short a company we're reporting on—we're not going to go and trade on it, we're not going to tell anybody who could go and trade on it because I think that would be unethical.

It may be legal in many places, but I think it's unethical. Secondary to that, you know, I think that the way that we approach this is that it is never a shakedown; it is never blackmail. We never treat it that way because that's entirely inappropriate, and that's not our goal! We’re not the mafia! We never want to be the mafia!

And I refuse to be a shakedown artist like these people on the left! I've had