The Poor Man's Rolex? | Kevin & Teddy Baldassarre Tudor Watches

It's a bit of a funky look. It is. Well, you have to hand it to Tudor; they've really, really focused on great dials, great value. If there was ever a brand that could encroach on a Rolex, it would be Tudor. Absolutely, it's its own standalone brand. This is not the poor man's Rolex.

Hey, Mr. Wonderful here with Teddy again in a really remarkable place. We're in the basement of the Bucherer store in New York, the flagship store. Maybe probably the largest watch store in the world. Pretty well every brand here, 20 brands plus. You can never find a shop experience like this. I want to focus on one particular brand which I think has a little controversy to it. We're going to talk about it; it's Tudor.

Now, Teddy, I'm going to let you set the pace here. Sure, talk about Tudor, its heritage, and then let's debate where this fits in the strata of brands right now. Absolutely, so let's start with the history of Tudor. We've talked about this in the past, yes, and we've said, but where is its market position?

I think there's what Tudor originally was intended to do by Hans Wilsdorf when he registered the name in 1926 and then eventually started making watches in 1946. You had the middle of the 20th century, then they had the affiliations with the Marine Nationale using a lot of course Rolex parts, a lot of names. They were emulating much of the Submariner; they actually had two Submariners. So there was a period where Tudor was just seen as that '50s, we're talking about '60s, '50s, '60s, '70s, and even '90s, were making some mariners in the '60s and '70s. For many people, including me, Tudor was the entry-level Rolex. If you couldn't afford a Rolex, you bought a Tudor, with this brand assumption that somehow it was the umbrella brand and the quality of this entry-level piece, the Tudor was, let's call it for what it was, the poor man's Rolex.

Now, that's what it was in the '60s as a brand. Hans Wilsdorf, I mean, you could look at the quote that he had; he was looking for an entry-level position for Rolex without compromising the image of Rolex. But what's happened, and I think there's two areas of Tudor, there was a time when in the '90s I think they really lost their way. They were releasing models like the Hydronaut and other things that were a little out there. They removed themselves from the US market for a decade. A brand like Tudor—not even—I never understood that.

Well, they probably just were not selling through. But then something happened. I think they really thought about, okay, we need to establish our own identity, we need to establish our own watches that can speak to our history and also be unique. I think we can talk about that today. Now we don't have everything on the table, but I think if you had to look at what spurred all this along to change it, it was the Tudor Black Bay.

So, this was released in 2012. I agree with you. I mean, I will admit to one thing, Tudor is now a standalone brand. It's found a price point sub-five thousand dollars. Three to five is usually where they play mostly, so they're stealing share from a bunch of people that were also in that space. And they've done something that really matters to me and to collectors. They've really created great dials. They've got great dials. There's lots of selection, a lot of good work being done here.

And I can finally say with certainty, and I would never do this unless I believed it, this is not the poor man's Rolex anymore. It's not. It's not even associated with Rolex the same way it was before in the market's eyes. It's its own standalone brand. So I gotta hand it to management. Clearly, marketing has worked for them. People think the watch is hip now.

It's a great piece that you can afford for two, three, four thousand dollars, and they make a really good movement, good caliber, great dial. And I think the one thing that they'll speak to that is the fact that if you, a lot of Rolex buyers, if it was just, say, an offshoot of Rolex, that's all it was; it didn't have any substance to it, then why would Roxbury ever buy a Tudor? But what I find is many Rolex buyers do buy Tudor still.

Yeah, so that does happen. Let's talk a little bit about some watches, though, okay? Now we’re here in Bucherer, so I think we start here. Now in 2012 they come out with the Black Bay. It was originally unveiled with a 41-millimeter case, automatic movements, and then in 2016 they started unveiling in-house calibers. And then you just saw a barrage of new models. One of the models that they released on the sports dive watch, so, and then this is going back to those big crown family of dive watches. It didn't hurt them that all the other makers were going the same direction. I mean, dive got re—well, it still is. It's really big. So this one is the largest of the bunch we have.

That's the other thing that Tudor's done was they've represented all the different sizes. This is 43. And look what it's made of. This is a bronze case. So, this is the Bucher Blue edition. So, they released in 2016 the brown dial version of the bronze case. It was in 43, and it does a couple of things different. One, of course, you're getting bronze; three, six, nine dial; larger case format; immensely popular. The blue core is marked on the back as being part of this unique arrangement. Yep, Bucher Blue.

There are other brands that have also done it. I guess you see others; it's a beautiful piece, there's no question about it. It's clear that they really focused on bringing something in the market that was going to be very competitive. Price point on this, Teddy, that is just over four thousand dollars, and that's a phenomenal value for four thousand dollars.

And what they do with their bronze, and what I've liked about—I don't know if you've ever—I'm sure you have—like the bronze and its patina effect, like if you tarnish it, it can look—I mean, it looks like the Statue of Liberty at times for certain brands. But what Tudor does is they have a different alloy, a lot of aluminum in the alloy, which allows it to have that consistent hue longer than some other brands. So, I want to start there. That's like 20.

So on the table, we mostly have Black Bays, but let's just keep going through some of them. Another one that I love for around three thousand dollars, what can you get from an everyday watch? Versatile; could be worn in a sporty environment; could be worn potentially with some dressy attire—maybe not with a full suit, but you know how to wear a sports coat, could work: the Tudor Black Bay.

Yeah, so this is Tudor Black Bay. You have 36, you have a 41. These were unveiled in 2016, and I just think for somebody that just wants a do-it-all type of piece, they don't maybe like the dive watch format of the Black Bay, but they want something with that style and, of course, design elements with the hands. It's a crossover piece; it can be a dress watch; it can also be sporty, and you have that 36 option.

And one thing I just want to talk about now in the last six, seven months, the smaller 36, 38 has become very, very competitive in terms of men's watches. Lots of guys are getting smaller dials now because they look great, and it's something that the trend kind of died for a few years. Now it's coming back, which shows when you're collecting you don't ever want to get stuck in one time period. You want to have lots of different options. I'm now buying 36s.

I agree. Yeah, this one is the 41, and then also, I mean, 150 meters of water resistance on this, you know. But that's, I mean, I don't get down past, you know, 100. The Rolex standard is 100 meters, so I'm just just saying.

Yeah, now, moving on to I think another part of what Tudor's done really well. This was a watch was released in 2018. This is another Black Bay. We're going to be talking about a Black Bay here today, but it's for good reason. This has changed the brand completely. This is the GMT Black Bay GMT, so this was released in 2018. It's just over four thousand dollars, so you know what that's going to get mistaken for. Oh, you know exactly.

So this one is more on the nose. I will give you this, and this is starting to encroach on the territory, but why this was so special was that there was ever a brand that could encroach on a Rolex, it would be Tudor. Absolutely! And so this is an opportunity to own a watch that when you look across the room is going to look like a GMT, and it, in fact, really has that heritage at an incredible price point.

The other thing I would say about that now, there is some more competition now, but when that was released—so there's a true—people call it a true GMT, and what that refers to is when you are traveling and you have a GMT watch, typically, when you use off-the-shelf calibers like an SW-330 from Solida and an ETA 28.93, there's no way to do this. You pull out to the first position, and you can isolate the hour hand. So the same, of course, Rolex of course does that, but for four thousand dollars, there are not many brands that will do this and then say, hey, I'm traveling to LA, I'm here in New York City; three hours back, three hours forward. Quick! Don't happen!

I do that with my GMT all the time, and it's a fantastic feature. Moving along now, we do have a couple others. And this is a personal favorite. I'm actually wearing one right now. We have the Black Bay 58, so this was also unveiled—the same year as the GMT. So first, the line was the models that we have here is a blue navy version, which I have on my wrist now in stainless steel and on a bracelet. And then this is another watch—this was actually released last year—that case is made of silver, 925 sterling silver. Beautiful! And you know that'll have great patina over there.

Oh yes! And I know I've seen some of these now getting a little aged because they've been in the market. Seems like they're holding a grayish style; they call it taupe-choke. It really, really works with the silver because the bezel also has that tonality. That is a fantastic combination—a beautiful piece.

When we're talking about where can Tudor differentiate itself and be different, price point on this just over four thousand dollars as well. So, I mean, this is really what the story's about, is these really eclectic, beautiful pieces with the inherent quality in the movement; you know it's there. And under five thousand dollars, I think it's so important people realize you can start watch collecting at very low price points and great pieces.

Manufacture caliber—so they own a manufacturing movement provider, CAN— and they're producing their MT calibers inside of here, 70-hour power reserves. These are all COSC certified, the majority of these on the table, so there's a lot going for it. And I also—open case back—where do you see that from the Rolex and Rolex Tudor family? That's very rare. You don't see it. You don't see it. And also on a silver watch, I mean, come on!

So it's a little different, you know? I don't recall ever seeing anything in a Rolex first nut and silver. It's actually not open other than some really rare Cellini Prince models. I mean, they don't do it. Yeah, they just don't do it.

So it's another point. They don't have to do it. They don't have to do it. That's right. Otherwise, they do it—that's true! I mean, that's what competitors do; they try and get an up by just having something in the back to look at, but Rolex doesn't have to do it. Yeah, okay, let's go on to a dress side, maybe dress sign.

All right, so this is something I actually own one of these too; this is an underrated watch. Now, this two thousand dollars? Yeah, you want to get a brand like Tudor, and if you talk about brand equity, I think this is as strong as you can come by in terms of this process. Very nice bracelet too. It is very nice! So this is a classic dress watch, 1926 is the name of that. So that's kind of paying, you know, honor to the original year that the name was going to be trademarked. Yeah, in addition, there's texture to this style.

There is, and which also gives it kind of a little bit of a 3D element, and it does—you know the thing about these dials on dress watches? You want to make sure there's contrast between what you're seeing, what you're not seeing, so you can tell the time from the side of your eye, and this watch definitely—they call that an opal. This is my favorite version. Now, there are multiple different variations for ladies, all different sizes too. So you have 41, a 39, a 36. I mean, there's a lot to choose from with the sizing of these, and that's what I really like about Tudor and like these offerings.

It's just a no-nonsense two thousand dollar dress watch, and I also think it does have some sporty upside. You're talking 100 meters of water resistance; you have that bracelet that's available to it; you could, of course, change out the strap if you needed to. I had to screw down crown, so that speaks to the waters, so that could be a capable just everyday style launch. This is just a twin term that I think is probably the most wearable of what we've got here in terms of being good for everything. Yep, tuxedo t-shirt works.

I think, I think you can, right? Strap, you could add some sizes, so you have a variety to choose from, 36, 36 available, 39, 41. You also have some lady option; that's 31, 41. Yep, got it! All different sizes there. Fantastic!

Now, a couple of other ones—let's go a little funky, and then we'll talk about a new model that was just released that we can speak to as well. So this is known as the Heritage Chrono from Tudor. So back in the '70s, they had a watch called the Monte Carlo. Bit of a buzz on this piece, which makes it interesting because, you know, if you can get your hands on one, then you've got something that may get collectible at some point.

People call it the Monte Carlo because it almost looks like a roulette wheel. It's a bit of a funky look. It is! Like very '70s. Very '70s. But, you know, look, it's got a lot going on on it, and that's probably why it's not going to do as well as some of the other pieces. I think, yes, they also—we don't have it here today, but the Black Bay Chrono is, I would say for around five thousand dollars, maybe the best value for a Swiss entry-level chronograph. You talk about the Speedmaster. Speedmaster is at 6,300 for—so this is a brand that's duking it out with Omega, but Omega's moved up price point 20%. They're taking a bit; they're taking that market share of like 2,000 to 5,000; they're really owning it. Tudor is tutoring, yes! They're gaining market share.

That tells you a little bit about the watch industry. They're probably stealing some share from TAG right now, TAG, Breitling, perhaps moving up a little bit. Yes, but that price point is entry-level for sure. And obviously, Omega's feeling confident enough, and they should, given what's happened in the last couple of years, to kind of get in that five to ten thousand dollar range. Look at that Snoopy! That watch that they brought—yeah, that's crazy!

Yes, absolutely! No, but look, also interesting. I mean, if you want something a little more eclectic, not expensive chronograph, I get it. And then we'll close out with a new model for 2021. This is known as the Tudor Black Bay Pro. Now, again, very similar to the GMT, I look at this and I definitely see some Rolex in here! Are you kidding?

Yeah, I mean, I see vintage Rolex. Exactly! And what was great was totally unplanned; you picked out a 1655 Explorer II. That's exactly what I get here! You get the orange GMT hand; you get the fixed stainless steel bezel on the outside, 24 hours. It's cool!

Yeah, this is vintage look of—in the old days, Rolex did not do ceramic bezels, and so this was just stainless bezel, which is absolutely beautiful. This is my favorite of their pieces currently. Isn't that beautiful?

Yeah, it is, 39 millimeters, so that's 39, which I like. Yep, middle ground, middle price point again; just over 4,000 as well—I mean that is probably a fantastic watch. I, you cannot go wrong with this at that price. It has you covered in every scenario. I mean, I love that size; some people were saying some things about the thickness. I think it is thick; it is thicker, it is thicker, but you've got a lot going on in this watch.

True GMT again! Yeah, no, you know, for that price, GMT for that price and also such a classic look. Fantastic look! You have to hand it to Tudor; they've really, really focused on great dials, great value. Lots of interesting technology here to get true GMT and under five grand says it all.

Yeah, we haven't even looked at things like the Pelagos, which is a full titanium dive watch, and they have this cool Marine Nationale collaboration. You also have the full ceramic Black Bay, full ceramic watch. So, they really have become the entry-level best value, I think, in this price range of two to five thousand dollars. I'd put them, you know, really up against anybody. I mean, there are other brands that I think of like an Oris and, of course, like a Longines that are also there, but even them, they a little bit in terms of pricing. They also go down a little bit more than Tudor.

Tudor's a little—they're two thousand dollars down if you think about it. Yeah, they don't hop out at five thousand; they're more of like that one thousand to say three, four thousand dollar range.

But so basically, if you're looking to enter the watch market and you've got two to three thousand to spend, there's lots of optionality with Tudor. That's why we did the show today. I really wanted you to bring this forward because I'm really looking for people to start their journey. That's the whole idea. You want to be in watch collecting; you've got to start your journey, but I never want you to borrow money to do it, so you've got to really think about what you want about your beginning of the journey.

There's no destination in watch collecting, only a journey. It never ends; it's a horrible disease. I hope you catch it. Thank you, Teddy! Marathon, not a sprint! Remember, everybody, take it slow. Take care. See you again soon!