Imitation as a Gateway to Development | Russell Brand & Mikhaila & Jordan Peterson

[JORDAN]: One of the things you’ve done is to pick someone to imitate and to pull yourself towards them by that process of imitation. Then when you got close, you pick someone else to imitate or to compare yourself with.

[MIKHAILA]: Compare myself with...

[JORDAN]: Sure, but it’s the same thing. The comparison is the same thing. Because when you compare yourself to someone, you start pulling yourself towards them, unless you get envious and resentful.

[MIKHAILA]: And that’s what I’ve done throughout my life is, “Hey, that person’s really smart and interesting.” I try and achieve what they’re achieving, and then once you get there, you pick somebody above you. The problem is, that means you’re always kind of unfulfilled, but it also means you’re always growing. So that’s what we were talking about.

[JORDAN]: That’s also why Jung pointed out, for example, he believed that the Book of Revelations had been tacked onto the New Testament, because the Christ in the Gospels was portrayed too much as a figure of mercy. Whereas, in Revelations, Christ is portrayed primarily as a judge, and Jung’s explanation for that was that every ideal is a judge. The ultimate ideal is the ultimate judge, and you could say the ultimate ideal judges your soul. Because that’s virtually the definition of the ultimate ideal. So the ultimate ideal is something transcendent and divine that judges your soul.

Now what that means about the way the universe is constituted, again, I have no idea. But the higher the ideal, the more severe the judge. That’s clearly the case, and that should make you quake. When your conscience assaults you in the middle of the night for things that you’ve done wrong, it’s because you’re quaking in your boots, morally, because you’ve failed to live up to this ideal. There’s no escape from that. Not truly. I don’t believe there is.