Will COVID-19 Kill the Music Industry? | Ask Mr. Wonderful #25 Kevin O'Leary ft CEO of Rolling Stone

Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Ask Mr. Wonderful. Who's my guest? This is fantastic! It's Gus Winner, son of Young Winner, founder of Rolling Stone magazine, cultural icon, rock and roll music, fashion, politics— you name it! So much to talk about with Gus. Fantastic!

But I thought because it's our rock and roll kind of vibe, and you know, Rolling Stones are over 50 years old now, Gus is running the show. I thought we'd go back in time a little bit, and I want to add the music to this week's episode, just the background track. But in those days, rock and roll— and this is a classic— a '69 Telecaster. And this is such an unforgiving [ __ ] of a guitar to play with, yet iconic! A lot of people don't know that this was the guitar that played all of those solos on the first Led Zeppelin album.

That's right, it's amazing! And also, you think of all the licks that Keith Richards played, you know, on the early Rolling Stones when he did an open G on a telly with the top E missing, the string gone— did five-string licks. Really, really interesting!

But let's leave that in the past. I want to talk about the classic rock and roll tune. Most of the power chords in that day were sort of like three-chord wonders; like 80% of the songs were done this way— that classic psychedelic riff. It was kind of [Music]. Remember that one? It's like fifty songs!

But then along comes Jimi Hendrix, and he does something really interesting: he gets much more complicated, a lot more chords, a lot of minors, a lot of interesting transitions. And I think the song that I want to try and lay down today is my version of "Little Wing," which has been done so many times, and everybody riffs to it a different way. I thought it would be perfect for the Gus interview. So, you remember that one? It was kind of like [Music], and so on.

I just screwed that up right there, but then, you know, maybe a little lead... Ladies and gentlemen, Gus Winner, CEO of Rolling Stone! [Music]

Anyways, look, Gus, let's talk about how you've been hanging out for the last four or five weeks. How has your mindset been? And everybody's asking the same question about everybody else— so where are you at?

Gus: Well, I'm in a very fortunate place in terms of location and space, and I've been worried about all people out there. I was in New York initially, which I've never felt the city have that kind of energy, and it's jarring when you watch the news. It's some of the scariest stuff you've ever seen in a way. But I've been fortunate to be with my family and been trying to enjoy that time together.

But obviously, you know, managing a business through this type of crisis is extremely difficult and stressful. And then also figuring out what role we can play to be part of the solution. I don't know if you saw our cover yesterday with Andrew Cuomo on it. We're gonna get to that, don't worry. You're venomous—a bit of a [ __ ] disturber here, I got to tell you.

So, we've done some amazing things through all this in terms of reporting. I mean, our traffic has never been higher! We have 36 million unique visitors on our site, which was the biggest monthly we’ve had prior to that. I think 34 million in April—we'll surpass that with some margin. So, we've got an important role to play here as a news delivery service, as a perspective on the world, as a connector to important people and voices. And all of this, we've had some incredible interviews; had one with Stacey Abrams we put up online and full in video. We had one with Buttigieg; we had one with Sam Bee— we just covered the gamut.

We've also launched a couple of series and franchises that have been great. We did one called "In My Room," where we have musicians performing from their room, from their space all over the world. We launched it with Brian Wilson. We've had some incredible artists perform in that series. So, it’s been about managing through crisis, obviously managing expenses, and making sure all our employees are okay. We've got certain, you know, people alone in apartments in small cities, so just checking in with them every day and all that.

But then, from a creative perspective, figuring out how we can use this to propel everything we're doing. So, we knew, you know, we were gonna do this interview. So I put out to my social, "Look, if you have questions for Gus Winner, this is your chance." And you know, I set it up to four million people, so we got a lot more questions than we could possibly curate. So we tried to take, you know, bunches of them.

But the one that is every second question, Gus, is "How the [ __ ] do I get on the cover of Rolling Stone?" Which is some kind of cultural thing that has been around for 50 years. Tell me, what does the cover of The Rolling Stone mean to you? You're the new steward of it, but you know what it meant from 50 years back. It's a big deal; it's a huge deal!

How do you choose the cover of The Rolling Stone? And you just did it this week— a very controversial one, a lot of politics, and what you did there. You're kind of shoving it in the president's face in some ways, but you did it anyways. How do you choose the cover? That's the question.

Gus: Well, from a process standpoint, there's a group of people—our chief editorial and creative staff— and we get together and brainstorm ideas and think about what is gonna have the most cultural impact, what we believe in the most. But it's a snapshot in time— it's a snapshot in time.

Yeah, I mean, listen, did you ever watch the Rolling Stone documentary on HBO that Alex Gaylord is? I love Rolling Stone; I grew up with it. So I randomly rewatched it last night because my friend that's out here with us was asking my mom all these questions about her life, and she started talking, and the stories are so incredible. So we ended up watching the documentary again, which I hadn't seen in two years probably.

And it's just so astounding to wrap my head around what my mom and dad did and what they created, and mostly just the moment that they were in, in San Francisco in the late 60s. I mean, they were literally— my dad was at Berkeley when the Free Speech Movement was happening, and you had rock and roll kind of forming. Like, really, the story begins kind of Monterey Pop, where you had Otis Redding and Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix and everyone kind of forming their sound. And this movement—what ended up changing the world multiple times over in one small confined space in San Francisco at that time— and my parents were right in the middle of it.

And my dad's vision behind it, his big insight, was that not only was this music great and fun and something that young people wanted to be a part of and listen to, but it had a broader cultural importance that would have major effects on society, on politics, on just progressive ideals, and flow permeate all of culture— all of American culture and eventually the world.

So drinking that in and understanding what type of impact Rolling Stone played through all of it is— it's almost hard to comprehend. So today, when we think about what is a cover, there are a lot of different factors and objectives. But I think at its core, it's, is this subject— is this image— have the ability to be something that is iconic that, as you said, captures a time and moment? So that is the chief number one criteria we think about in choosing what the cover subject should be, who should shoot it, and what type of story we want to tell.

How big a weight is the legacy of where Rolling Stone magazine came from on you? Because it's not just, you know, what occurred in those days and, you know, how it really captured the beginning of The Beatles and The Rolling Stones and all the bands you mentioned that part of Monterey— that was defined as true rock and roll, classic rock and roll today. But music today is nowhere near what that was, because it was such a concentration of styles.

Maybe ten bands ruled all the sales of albums back then. Now you have a plethora of different styles and people and personalities and geographies. And your mandate is to try and chronicle that— how do you do it?

Gus: I think you go where the quality is. If you look at our last 24 covers, for example, the subjects are ranging from, you know, political figures to music figures of all genres. I mean, just two issues ago, we had Scissor on the cover with Megan Thee Stallion and Normani together. And like, that's something that I think a lot of people would be surprised by or certainly a couple years ago shocked by. So we've pushed the boundaries as much as we can. We continue to look for how we can push it to make this thing as kind of important with what matters to young people today and what matters to culturally engaged people today as possible.

You know, it spans; it ranges across the spectrum of musicians, politicians, actors, but they all have to kind of have a level of cultural importance that we believe in.

So, the magazine business from the 70s, where the majority of profits came from selling advertising on a print format— you know, the demise of that has been chronicled a thousand times. Print is not that relevant to a new generation that you're talking about online.

In what ways do you have to change the way you think of that business? Because, I mean, it goes back to how heavy a burden is the past of what the Rolling Stone brand is to how you actually work day to day.

Do you have to keep going back and saying to yourself, "What would they have done? What would my father have done in the 70s versus what I'm doing today?" Or do you just think of it as a brand-new— I have a new future with this thing.

I have the legacy of a brand, which is a huge benefit, obviously. I mean, everybody knows in music what Rolling Stone was and is. How do you manage it? Because you still have a print version, but that cannot be an easy way to make money. And yet, translating digital advertising over from print has not been easy to lots and lots of others that have tried it. You're still around, but a lot of competitors in the 70s are no longer viable; they're gone.

Gus: Yeah, I mean, since I came into the business, which I graduated school in 2012 and then started working at the company, I've always felt like the mindset has been kind of a startup within this iconic legacy and brand. When I joined, the website had like, I don't know, four million unique visitors a month. And as I just mentioned, we're now up to like near 40 million. So, and that's not counting our reach across social media and all these other areas.

So, it's about taking the mission and the ethos of what was created and translating that to what we must do today to grow. And our ambitions are not just to survive; they're to build something enormous on a global scale. And we are making quite a bit of progress in doing so.

Obviously, relying on print advertising is a failing strategy, so we have made massive changes to our whole business model. We've gone from a biweekly to a monthly in terms of our print. We've taken— I mean, I think you buy a lot of magazines now; they almost feel like they're printed on like toilet paper. I mean, the quality is so thin. So we’ve gone the opposite direction, saying once a month we’re gonna put out an almost book-like product.

And we took our size of the magazine up to a hundred pages, where previously it was like in the 60s or 70s. We put it on the oversized paper stock, really high-quality paper, and we fill it with our best reporting and photography. And it's a great medium to kind of swim in our best stuff. But the thrust of what we do is online, and we have radically changed how we think and operate as an editorial team and as a business to really be like a news-driven culture.

I mean, we publish about 60 to 70 stories a day now, which—obviously—prior to the importance of digital, it was just putting out a magazine every two weeks. It's a much radically different operation. But beyond that, we're focused on building our events business and really establishing that as a revenue stream. We see a lot of potential there, and we've done really good work to grow it over the last couple of years.

We do now like twenty to thirty events a year. We did last year kind of a different size and scale, but we are still primarily in the advertising business— digital advertising, events advertising, print advertising to a lesser degree. And we're very focused on how we can harness everything that we have built and are building into other areas outside of advertising.

So there are obvious routes like subscription, which we're deep into developing right now—a digital subscription—but also licensing and product development. So we are not trying to boil the ocean per se, but we're trying to, and are heavily pursuing, new areas where we can take our magic and build real businesses around them.

Let me ask you a question that comes from the journalism side of this business. When one of the challenges every entity that's going from print to digital— given that how much content you're generating, the frequency of issuance going up and up— how do you curate your content? How do you fact-check it? How do you make sure? You know, Rolling Stone’s got in trouble before; it was an incident recently— I don't have to detail it, but every publication has suffered this. The street cred of journalism has declined probably because of the issues around politics in the last couple of elections.

But do you worry that when someone puts out, you know, an article for you, and they did it in 48 hours, that you have enough time to check the information?

Gus: I mean, we probably have one of the most rigorous fact-checking processes you'll find. And you were alluding to an incident where we took our eye off the ball there, and coming out of that, we said to ourselves, "We will never make this mistake again." And as you said, most major journalistic operations have dealt with this in some regard in their history; the Washington Post of our times.

So it's critical to us that every story we put up goes through a process of fact-checking and copy editing and line editing. I don't think a lot of people— a lot of digital publishers and upstarts or legacy publishers—will survive long term. I think there are gonna be a few that have an even bigger opportunity to grow what they do.

Think you look at the New York Times, and they've done an outstanding job of finding a new model that they're building upon— new ways of packaging what they do. So being of quality is priority number one. Without that—if you water down your product to try and satisfy kind of short goals, I think it would be deathly to a publishing business.

But when you stray into politics—and I think it's fair to say Rolling Stone leans a little bit to the left; maybe you can argue that with me, but I certainly read it and have for decades— it has had a left bias. That means 50% of the population, even though they want to get their music news from you, puts up with a view that they don't agree with.

Do you worry that blending politics with music, the music is universal, generally speaking, transcends partisanship, but politics does not? Gus, some of your articles rile the right, and do you feel you're at risk of losing subscriptions, losing eyeballs, because you, for you know, lack of a better word, pissed off 50% of the voters?

Gus: No, I think it’s our duty to cover politics. Like I said in the beginning, the founding principle—like literally the mission statement that my dad wrote in issue one— was this isn't just about the music; it's about the values and— I’m not quoting word-for-word— the values and principles that the music embraces.

And if you look at the history of political activism through music, it's enormous. So covering politics is a critical part of our mission. That said, we do lean left. We get behind the issues that are of most important to us in our worldview, and many of the musicians that we cover. Our last issue had Greta Thunberg on the cover and was solely dedicated to the environment as an issue and topic, and some incredible reporting from some of our best journalists.

But it is important to capture multiple perspectives. We have journalists that come from all different sides and backgrounds and worldviews. But yes, we have a general philosophy about the world and we believe in it, and we want to make an impact in how some of those issues are thought of and treated, and how people are taking action on certain things.

I think the environment is a really good example of that. It's a good segue into another question I have for you. I have at least a hundred people— a lot of them just graduating from journalism colleges or, you know, have interests in what you do in their early 20s— they want to know what you're looking for and who you employ.

So if you were to give a universal metric— because I mean countless questions ask them what it takes to get a job at Rolling Stone— it's that simple. What does it take to get a job at Rolling Stone?

Gus: Well, I think that it ultimately boils down to—are you more passionate about something than someone else? I mean, there are endless amounts of really smart, talented people out there. And I think whether you're trying to get a job as a journalist at Rolling Stone or anywhere, if you have an actual passion for something you love, you will probably work harder and be more committed to being greater than that thing than anyone else for the majority of other people.

So I think that is the biggest factor in finding great talent: is like they believe in the thing, in what they're doing, in what we stand for, in our mission, in the role of journalism. And that comes in all sorts of different forms and shapes and sizes.

I mean, probably the thing that strikes me most in rewatching the documentary and thinking about the whole legacy is just the incredible talent that has been part of Rolling Stone's roster over the years. I mean, Hunter Thompson and Leibovitz, Tom Wolfe— the list is pretty much endless. And today we have extraordinarily talented people, and you know, it's not like everyone— there's one formula. I mean, some of these people are insane, but in great ways, and that makes them legends.

But I would say, you know, passion and belief mixed with real skill and talent is the best way to get a job at Rolling Stone.

There you have a unique view from what you're from your perch of the music industry, which is going through some trauma right now because in the last, you know— the digitization of music, the business model of selling the vinyl record changed, the actual economics of what artists make changed.

And there was a very dark period there for a while in the mid-80s when it was very tough to make a living because your primary source of $1 or $2 a record turned into 5 cents for a digital, you know, MP3 ripped-off file or whatever.

Through all of the transitions that it's gone through— and then along came performance, and all of a sudden a huge resurgence in performance and merchandising, and the unique experience of gathering— watching a band in a giant venue—it came roaring back and it was peaking.

And the industry consolidated. Live Nation is a major player now, obviously. And then all of a sudden, like that, it’s turned off. You can't do that now. What is the new normal in your view going to be when people can gather together again? Is that business going to change? Is everybody gonna have a mask on? What does a rock concert gonna look like? What does any concert going to look like?

Gus: Well, I think you've got two things sort of at odds with one another. The first is, I don't know how comfortable people are gonna feel gathering in massive groups. You look at festivals— and I've been talking to a wide range of people in that business over the last week or two. People wanting to gather with, you know, anywhere from 30 to 80 thousand other people in a small, essentially confined space, I don't know how comfortable people will be doing that until there's an established vaccine. And that could take 18 months, right?

Until the vaccine is there and available, so I think until that point it is gonna be different. And there’s a major question mark on how the public is gonna want to gather for a rock show or sporting event or anything in the live business. But inherently we are social people, and live music is one of the great joys of life— or a sporting event. So I believe that long term that will win out— people's drive to want to be together and be social and interact.

And watch incredible performances. I mean, why else are we here other than to do things like that? But I think it's gonna take a little time, and I think until a vaccine is out there, it's gonna be tough for anyone in that business.

And it's miraculous how much of it Live Nation owns, and I think there's a major question mark around what they will do and how their business will look over the next 18 months. But long term, I have a strong belief that there's no way people won't be back to going to shows regularly.

So the Rolling Stone brand, over the decades, has chronicled some of the most iconic concerts in history that defined whole careers and genres of music, etc. When you look at how the industry's changed, assuming you're correct, and it comes back to a normalcy in the next two years or whatever, where does Rolling Stone play a part in that?

But what's your game plan? Are you gonna use your brand in any way, and do you see yourself fitting into that part of music? Because just cash flows in the music business have certainly moved in that direction. Great performance artists are doing very well again, in a way they never could during a very peaking digital period in the 80s.

They're back, and they're back big time. Where do you fit in that? Give me the question— one other way, essentially, how are we gonna fit in from a survey industry perspective?

Gus: Yeah, performance artists that are able to sell tickets at extraordinary prices today to both, even legacy acts— even acts that were relevant in the 70s are doing it. And you knew artists like Billie Eilish can sell out anything, anywhere with extraordinarily rich ticket prices.

That's a source of revenue. Rolling Stone traditionally hasn't tapped into. Do you have any plans on being part of that with your brand? Is that part of what you're thinking of doing, and if so, how?

Yeah, I mean, we—I want to have a true music festival, Rolling Stone Music Festival. I'm currently looking at probably five or six different scenarios where we enter that part of the business that you're describing.

Like I said about the cover and our journalism, the key thing is, is there an opportunity where we can be great at something? And for years, I both kind of resent my dad about this but also admire him for it: every type of thing you could imagine was thrown at him— “Do a Rolling Stone Hotel! Do this! Do that!”— and his philosophy was, “I am, in his mind, the best editor in the world, and that's the thing that he could be great at and deliver to the audience at the highest level.”

And he always stuck to it, and I think it's why the thing has been around for 52 years now. We are in a moment where expanding into other areas is critical. So, as I said, the live business will be a big part of our strategy over the next five years, and I'm currently in the trenches of building that and figuring out exactly what our place in it is.

Your dad took a tremendous amount of criticism in the later decades for not expanding the brand, not being enough of an opportunist, having built such a huge brand in music and not doing exactly what you just said— they're not expanding it. I’m just wondering—you were old enough then to understand that kind of pressure.

And you know, I've had many people ask me about you and whether from that context, from the way they looked at it, if you won't make that same mistake. If you believe that the vision has to be so defined, is so narrow, and remain the greatest editor? Which that's great. You even you've increased the digital, which I'm not, by the way—you have fantastic talent, that's clear.

You've said that, but big brands are successfully managed. You can look at Polo; you can look at clothing— you can look at other industries. People are sometimes extraordinarily successful expanding it and curating it as they do it. Where do you fit in that continuum? Are you your father's son in the context of focus, or are you gonna have a bigger vision for this thing?

Gus: No, if we don't expand— if we think narrowly, we fail, period. We're not in an era where narrow thinking in the media business will succeed now. Our great strengths in terms of journalism and storytelling will always lead everything we do and keep us relevant and important.

And if we drop the ball on that aspect of it, it would have really terrible ramifications on everything else we're trying to do. But the vast majority of my time and energy and certainly passion for this thing is how can we take that and create a very sizeable global business that is leading the world in terms of content creation across the board?

So that's films, it's television, that's print—of course it's digital, it's online, it's news. Now, trying to take on too much would be a mistake. But by all means, my perspective is to be as aggressive in a smart way— as aggressive as possible about growth, taking what we do and what we mean to the world and growing it.

Okay, before we leave the past, I have one more here, and it's again one of these questions that's at the top of the list by many people. They want to know what your relationship with your father is like now. What's that like? Are you willing to talk about it?

Gus: We're extremely close. He's my best friend. We talk every single day. He, in so many ways, is my chief counsel. I mean, he also taught me the importance of seeking out smart people. He said to me at one point, “One of the great pleasures and advantages of what you do and the position you're in is to be able to meet with and learn from some of the smartest people in the world that are doing the most interesting things.”

And I took that to heart very early on and spent so much time just seeking out super impressive people. I mean, Rapinoe from Live Nation is one of them who recently I spent time with, and there's so many across the board who taught me so much and gave me so many ideas and just to bounce things off of.

But I've come to realize in all of that that my dad, for better or worse, is one of the most interesting, smart, wisest people out there. So having him at my disposal to bounce things off of and learn from every day, even though we disagree on all sorts of stuff and yell at each other all the time, I mean, I just feel fortunate and I take advantage of it. I’d be silly not to. And you know, he's hilarious. So we laugh a lot.

Okay, let's get to some questions, Gus, because I could not possibly post all the questions we got. So we tried to curate down to a few that captured the essence of the hundreds and hundreds. You're a popular guy; a lot of people want to hear what you have to say, so I'm gonna just pick some eclectic ones. You'll hear them, and you can answer. They're different.

Okay, here we go. This one's from Melanie. Let's hear from Melanie here.

Melanie: Hi Mr. Wonderful, this is Melanie. Have you ever found yourself waking up in the morning wanting to say just [ __ ] it and to escape the day's task at hand? If so, how did you mentally get yourself back on track for the day? Thank you.

I thought this was a relevant question given the world we're living in right now. Do you wake up, Gus, and say [ __ ] it? I just don't want to get out of bed today?

Gus: I don't think I've ever said that. I can't. I wake up, and my mind is like racing. Sometimes I have trouble falling asleep. I've been taking ZzzQuil lately— I'm getting flack from my family for it because the name is so insane sounding. But no, I do great pleasure in life is to get up and go and create, and deal with people, and you know, put your energy towards something good. So I have not— I know a lot of people do that, and it's an issue that is serious.

And there's light versions of it and really intense versions of it, and I've had people in my life that have span the spectrum both. But me personally, I don't suffer from [ __ ] syndrome.

Good answer! All right, let's hear from somebody else. Let's hear from Brad here.

Brad: Hey Mr. Wonderful, my name is Brad Clark, and I'm interested in asking you and Gus what you guys think is a good way to build a community around a brand. Obviously, Gus had to do that with his Rolling Stone issues, and I thought this would be a great opportunity to ask you guys that love the show. Thank you!

Gus: You know, Gus, that's a great question because you said you had a few million followers when you took over digitally. And now you're talking about a quantum of that— thirty to forty million. How did you do that?

Gus: The key distinction I was referring to is unique visitors, which are people that come to our website over the course of a month. So, and the reason I make that distinction is because the follower on social media is a much different thing than a unique visitor— someone coming to read our output in journalism.

But both are very, very important. So, if you combine the two, we reach somewhere around seventy-plus million in a given month— that's a better number, it's a better number! But how did you do it?

Gus: It's a quantum of where the business was 2012, 2013, 2014. Certainly, that was the beginning of the digital, you know, wave, if you want to call it that—it was coming fast.

I mean, it took a real culture change within our staff and our team. We came from a very print-driven background that wasn't really growing the online audience because they weren't thinking that way and they weren't— that wasn't driving the creative process.

So anyone who comes from publishing, and a legacy publishing brand or magazine or newspaper has experienced this, you know, and it's tough getting an editorial team and a business team to actually change their thinking and process.

And figuring out who is capable of doing that and who just won't really get on board— so we've had to make a lot of staff changes over the years.

Percentage do you think you turned over to turn it into digital versus print? I mean, it must have been brutal, but are they half gone, or two-thirds, or where are you on that?

Gus: Lots of lots of turnover, but less turnover than you think in the key positions. So our editorial team—the editorial leaders, many of them have been with the brand for over ten years; in some cases, you know, close to twenty. And that's because the creative mechanism at the top, that I don't think changes that much, and you've got smart people.

It's not rocket science to understand how to sort of take something and put it into digital format and what will work there versus— and these are extraordinarily talented editors we're talking about.

But in terms of the people lower down, we just needed a pace and an energy. And you asked, like, how did we build that audience? Frankly, by putting a lot of good content out regularly and just changing our pace and our energy and our daily mix around how we operate and what we produce, and the sheer volume of it while maintaining quality.

So we've had an enormous amount of turnover editorially— less turnover at the top though; there’s been some, but a lot of turnover in those mid-levels and more junior levels. And then on the business side, we've essentially turned over the entire team.

So you need to— music— you know, talking about journalism and newsmakers come and go, politicians get elected and they drop off newsmakers. Stories break every day; editors deal with people that come and flash to the surface, and then they're gone.

That's not quite what happens in music. A great artist that has a multi-decade career, the relationship with that person must be a huge asset to Rolling Stone— access to these people as they become beyond famous, they become part of culture and iconic in their own societies.

Is that one of the reasons that you have some people that have been there 20 years? They just have a value in terms of their relationships with musicians?

Gus: Yeah, absolutely! I mean, access is a key part of everything we do and our offering. I mean, you mentioned Billie Eilish earlier; we had Billie on the cover right around the Grammys this past year, and we had an incredible photograph Petra Collins took— a young photographer who's really talented.

And the story, which Josh Ellsworth, one of our writers, he spent a great deal of time with her. I mean, that story, I think, got to more depth about her and her world than anything I’ve seen in terms of profiles and pieces on her so far. So that level of intimacy, access, and depth is key and very, very important to what we do.

But I would say that the people that have been at the company for that long are there because they're very, very talented and they believe in the broader mission. I mean, if you go top to bottom in our business, you look at the accountants— like, everyone's a music fan. It's— I mean, I've been at concerts and like seeing, you know, someone from the accounting department— like, wait!

But it's amazing; everyone's connected by a love for music and culture. So I think that makes Rolling Stone unique in terms of retention of talent and people that work at the brand. But, you know, back to your original question— when you look at magazines and newspapers that have failed or that are failing or going out of business, and the ones that are succeeding are finding a path and a strategy that will lead to success over the next 5-10 years—

The ones in the latter group are ones that have been very aggressive about, you know, making the necessary moves and not kind of timid about changing the whole model and changing the whole thinking and culture.

Let's hit the questions again. I want to make sure we get through these. Here's one that's more music-oriented. Lindsey, let's hear this.

Lindsey: Hi, Mr. Wonderful and Gus! I know you guys are both great guitarists. I've always wanted to learn how to play the guitar, but I've never had enough time. And now, as you can imagine, like most people, I have a lot. Do you have any advice for somebody that's just starting out with the guitar?

I've barely picked up an instrument, and I found a lot of apps and whatnot online, but I just need some tips for a complete beginner because honestly, I have no idea where to begin. Thanks, guys!

Gus: Do you want to take this, or do you want me to do it?

Mr. Wonderful: Well, I think we should both take it. I’ve been playing guitar since I was 13, and it's a [ __ ]— you never stop learning. You have to play every day; you got to keep your calluses. It's a [ __ ]! That's what I think.

I'm always frustrated that I can't be better when I hear a guy like John Mayer play— whoo! I know! It just pisses me off so much that he's a quantum from what I can do, and I'm never gonna get there. That is the nature of guitar— it's quasi frustrating!

How do you feel about it?

Gus: Well, I think that in terms of learning, realizing that if you learn three chords, you can play like 80% of songs that exist in the world. It should feel like less of a mountain to climb, because if you learn the root chords, one, four, and five— so like if you're in the key of E, A, and B— you could really play the majority of songs that you'd probably want to play.

So I think if you focus on learning those three chords— G, C, and D— if you're in the key of G, you'll be able to do whatever you want for the most part. But then if you have big ambitions, like Mr. Wonderful here, about playing like John Mayer— you should have started a long time ago!

Mr. Wonderful: I know, but what I've come to is inclusion— listening to great guitarists that break out and become iconic. You know, there's playing the three chords— yeah, I can do that!

But then there's playing the guitar and adding your own style to this, so that the ear defines who you are— that's extremely hard to do! And I keep trying! I got a massive guitar collection! I even was a shareholder in Fender for a while— how crazy that is! But, and by the way, I made no money!

Gus: The why not? Here's a question for you, Gus: why is a 1959 tele, I've got a '64 over here, worth 40 times that a brand new tele is? And the new one is way better from the electronic side in the manufacturing process?

I'm talking about a Stratocaster; it used to drive me crazy when I was a shareholder in Fender, saying, "Why is a guy spending forty thousand dollars on a '63 Stratocaster when he can get one from us brand-new for four thousand? It’s 50 times better!" What is the answer to that question?

Gus: Well, I’m gonna answer it understanding that I really don’t know what I’m talking about, but I think it goes back to the same reason why an incredibly skilled, technically proficient guitar player, who might be technically speaking a better guitar player than someone else who plays with tons of soul and has their own style and is interesting— and you know, you could think of a million guitar players who fit those two bills— that one that is not maybe as good but just has such an incredible style becomes iconic or becomes a super successful guitar player.

It's about the poetry of the instrument and it's about the poetry of the sound, and not necessarily the technical proficiency of the interest instrument or the player.

Mr. Wonderful: Yeah, we as managers or shareholders of that business— we learned that it was a brutal truth! I wish I had the foresight to keep 20% of the production back in the 60s, when I was a kid, stored in a vault somewhere—that would have been an interesting outcome! Maybe someone else will think of that.

All right, let's do another one here. This is from Craig.

Craig: Hey Kevin, this is Craig. I have a question for you. Since you're staying at home these days, do you still wake up every morning and put on a suit? Or if you don't, what would be your quarantine power outfit?

Mr. Wonderful: You know, it's a good way to kind of think about full circle on this. I started this whole thing asking you, Gus, what your routine was in this strange time we're in, and that's really what this question is. What do you do to keep yourself sane when you don’t— you could just wear your pajamas all day?

Do you have any routine? Do you do anything that makes your day have definition versus just an endless stream of walking around the same place?

Gus: I mean, in terms of the wardrobe, I am suffering from having come out; I'm in Long Island right now at my mom’s house. I came out here the Friday before quarantine was officially in place, which was a Monday. So I literally have three pairs of clothes, so my optionality is limited at the moment. Two of them have like collars; this shirt clearly does not!

In terms of routine, look, I'm fortunate to be in a place that's there— space; the ocean is nearby, which has just done wonders for me mentally, and it's amazing place to be quarantined. I’m fortunate for that.

But I try to move; I try to get outside and move around for at least an hour a day and get the blood moving— like some form of exercise. That is critical. So I'm doing emails and calls, and the inflow of work has been enormous through all this, but finding an hour in the morning or late, right before light goes down to be outside and do something active has been really critical to my routine.

I'd be remiss if I didn't end on the topic of "Musicians on Musicians," which is a very successful print feature you did. We met as a result of exploring television opportunities together. Why does that format work?

And what is your hope if we get together and do something on turning it into television?

I mean, the project really intrigues me for my own reasons, but what is the genesis of how you got it to be so? I mean, I've read them all now; I can't wait for another one! I mean, they're just— it's caviar of content! How did it come to be?

Gus: Well, we came up with the idea, and basically, I mean look, we did it—we launched it last year as a print-digital...

Mr. Wonderful: Well, define what it is for those listening; I've never heard of it before!

Gus: It is what it sounds like: it's two musicians interviewing one another. But we pair them with one of our journalists who doesn't over-insert themselves in the conversation but kind of guides it. And I think that's a critical piece to what made it work so well in year one.

And we also paired really interesting people together. We weren't just like, "Oh, we're the two people we can book." We relied on our relationships with these individuals and their teams and really thought of what would be the most fascinating pairings.

So we had, on the cover of this whole platform—and I call it a platform; it's not just a print thing— there’s a big digital thing; there’s video, there’s all sorts of elements to it. But we had, on the cover, Elton John and Lana Del Rey interview one another, and they were there with one of our journalists called Patrick Doyle, who's fantastic.

And, you know, he kind of kicked things off, and Lana showed up with six pages of notes of questions for Elton! We had Billie Eilish and Billie Joe Armstrong together; we had Lenny Kravitz and her; we had— I think— Bonnie Raitt was with Brandi Carlile; we had Maggie Rogers— there was such a wide range of people and such interesting pairings!

And the conversations were incredible; they were powerful, they were funny, and they were always kind of guided and shepherded along by one of our writers who was there with them.

So, it was a huge success in year one! The interest to participate from the artist's side, and then from our audience in terms of wanting more—that series has been huge. And turning it into television seems like the natural next step, and it's just a great format for it.

And ultimately, the vision is to have these people covering each other’s songs, and I think that will raise it even a notch higher and make it more substantive, rich, and important. So, it's a great franchise, and I hope we work on it together!

Mr. Wonderful: Yeah, me too! I'm really excited about it! I hope it just— it's again flexing your access muscle and your brand muscle but in a way that is completely different than anything I've seen before.

I was reading the, you know, Ringo Starr one, and I mean, it transcends generations in a perfect way. You understand how you're passing the torch as a musician from one to the next.

I love that; I love the format of it! So, I'm very excited about it. I hope Gus we work on it together; let's see what happens.

Listen, thank you for your time! We burned up almost an hour; it was just too interesting to stop! Thank you for having that! You're a great— you're a great interview!

You don't [ __ ] around, so that's different! That's a little different! I try not to!

Mr. Wonderful: No, but I often have to get out like a screwdriver and pry the truth out, which I think I'm pretty good at, but I didn't have to do that with you— you just came out!

So thank you, man! I really—I love a screwdriver, Kevin! All right, I'll talk to you soon!

Gus: All right, take care! Bye-bye!

Mr. Wonderful: Rock and roll, baby! [Music]. Requite Wonder!