We made a Video Game (FISH GAME) - Smarter Every Day 291

Hey, it's me, Destin. Welcome back to Smarter Every Day. We made a video game. I was supposed to make a video here about, like, "Hey, this is the game, and you can buy it, and you can play it, and it's awesome." That was the original idea for this. But that changed, and this is why it changed.

I learned over the last few years through the process of working with this team to make the video game. I thought it was going to be about the technology and the software and how you do it to make a good video game. I was wrong. What actually happens to make a good video game is more about the psychology. It's like how you do what you do in the gameplay. And that's what this video is about. I totally got off on a tangent. Now, I hope through the process of watching this video, I earn your trust and you decide you want to buy the game and play it. But even if you're not into that, ultimately what I hope is that you learn what I learned to appreciate how a well-crafted video game is created, so that you can see what's a good video game that you should be spending your time with and what maybe you shouldn't be spending your time with.

So that's what we're going to do today, and I'm really excited about it. Yes, we're going to learn about the video game that we made. It's called Fish Game. It's an amazing aquarium simulation game. You get to design your own tank. You choose the size. You get to decide what goes in it. You can put hardscape and plants and even things that the fish can hide in. You choose the fish, and you get to discover how these fish interact, which all the interactions are based on science. It's a super smart science simulation, and it's really fun to play. I think you'll find it really satisfying.

I got off into trying to learn this stuff: how do people make good video games? To learn that, we're going to go out to PAX West out in Seattle. It's one of the biggest video game conferences that there is. We're going to talk to independent video game creators that make the best video games in the world. We're also going to meet a very special individual. This is the person that led the team that created one of the most iconic video games of all time. I'm so excited to give you a peek into how he thinks. This is a great video, and I'm excited about it! Ultimately, I do want you to buy the game at the end of the video if I earn that. If not, I just want to learn about video games with you, and this is going to be really fun. Let's go get Smarter Every Day.

[Smarter Everyday Intro Rock Riff]

I want to introduce you to my good friend, Gordon. He's the quiet behind-the-scenes guy that's helped make Smarter Every Day what it is for many years. Gordon is an expert in sound design. He has a company called A Shell in the Pit that's been doing music and slow-motion sound effects for Smarter Every Day for over a decade. We even did a couple of videos together on how he designs the super slow-motion sounds.

This is what a banana would sound like exploding next to Gordon's head. Notice the goggles. Don't try this at home. Gordon is one of my favorite people. He's selfless; he's humble. We've been through a lot together, including the Amazon Rainforest.

They're on. My face. Oh, they're everywhere. These are. Blackflies. Too. Oh, are they biting? They're going to start biting. Tastes like a pine tree.

To let you know his level of involvement, I went to Gordon. I was like, "Hey, I think I'm going to change the name of the channel to Smarter Everyday, what do you think?" He's like, "Shouldn't it be Smarter Every Day?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah."

Gordon and his team are well respected for their ability to create amazing audio and fantastic music for independent video games. So, instead of just making the music and sound for video games, a few years ago, Gordon reached out and said, "Hey, man, would you consider retweeting this tweet about a video game I'm making?" I remember where I was standing when you told me, "Will you please tweet it?" And I was like, "No, we're going to do more than tweet this."

[D] Because you have always wanted the game to exist, right?

[G] Yeah, I've got spreadsheets of me trying to make a game in spreadsheets.

[D] Are you serious?

[G] It's terrible. It doesn't work at all. But there's this kernel of having been a fishkeeper and observing behavior, always being just like a huge... Every kid wanted to be a marine biologist, and I was another one of those. But I've always been like I love fishing. There's just something magical about things underwater. And when I got into owning them and learning about how they interact and seeing the relationships and all that stuff, I was like, "Nobody's captured this in a game."

[D] Gordon is a remarkable person. And that's what's so cool about a video game because the game itself is a reflection of the individuals that make it. And as I got to thinking about all this, I was like, "I need to know more about video games." And I got really excited when I was on a trip and I saw something that reminded me of something. Real talk. The best video game ever, what is it? Yes, Oregon Trail. You remember the Oregon Trail? I'm out here in Idaho, and I'm at a rest stop, and I got so excited because I love that game as a child. And I am along the Oregon Trail right now.

Check it out. The Oregon Trail was a video game that took players from Independence, Missouri, along the Oregon Trail all the way up to Oregon. And it was based on the perils of travel along the west. You had these wagons, and you had to navigate difficult terrain, and you got to hunt. And to learn more about this video game, we're going to talk to one of the people that helped create it.

Okay, I'm in Georgia with a very special person. This is Philip Bouchard, correct?

[P] That's correct.

[D] In 1985, a small team working at the Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium was tasked with updating the original Oregon Trail video game, which at that time was mostly text-based. Philip Bouchard led that team. He and I spent hours together and played a full game all the way through. And the beautiful thing about this is that I could tell he genuinely enjoyed playing the game himself.

And as a kid, if you ever worked hard in class just so you get 30 minutes of extra computer time, you know I was flying high on an absolute nostalgia blast. Even though I broke my leg and got cholera, I don't know how to say it, it was amazing. Oregon Trail is not just a game; it's a good game.

I want to key in on the hows and whys of the decisions Philip and the team made with the Oregon Trail. What makes a video game important to a person that plays it?

[P] If you make it interesting enough, people will want to succeed, and they'll want to come back and try again. So one of the things that was pretty common in video games at the time, and it's probably still the case, is the certainty of failure. That is, you are going to fail a certain number of times, but each time you can get farther. So that's the whole basis of something like Pac-Man. You're always going to end up failing. You're always going to end up getting eaten, but you want to get farther and farther. So there is no stigma with the failure. Instead, the goal is how far can I get before I fail?

Now, the Oregon Trail, that was part of it. That is the idea that you would have to play it three or four times before you would succeed in getting out to Oregon. But then I had to make it, okay, now they've gotten to Oregon— instead of putting the thing on the shelf— now they have to want to play it again and again and again. So what are my other motivations?

Besides, there are lots of interesting details in the game that would contribute to this. But in terms of motivation, once you get to Oregon for the first time, we suddenly reveal there is a point system and you've got this points, and we have a pre-populated high score list. And here you were on the list, but not near the top.

[D] So you moved the goalpost a little bit.

[P] Exactly. And then I had questions. Oh, well, that was fun. How can I do it again and get higher on the high score list? There's also the way it's built. It's encouraging trying different methods. Well, I tried buying a lot of food upfront. What if I did a lot of hunting instead, or vice versa? Or what if I took a different route where there's a branch? Or what if I rested a lot on the way? Or what if I didn't push the crew so much? A crew, whatever. My party. There are lots of opportunities for tweaking your approach, and new things to discover along the way are these people to talk to: three different people you can talk to at each of the landmarks. So there's more things to explore in the corners.

[D] I love this so much. To realize that my childhood was shaped by a guy named Philip and his team that was sitting there and being like, "Now, there's a kid in Alabama that's going to play this, and he's going to think he won, but he didn't win." So you thought that through.

[P] What is the first name of the wagon leader? Now, this was an innovation for the game is that not putting in the first name, but at this point, what are the names of other members of your party? This turned out to be, it worked out even better than we expected because people will put in names of family or friends or whatnot, and they would be invested in those people.

And your job is to keep them all alive to Oregon, or as many as you can. And when people and members of your party die on the way and it's somebody's name you know, I think the kids would sometimes get.

Oh, no. [Both laughing] Sarah died.

[D] I'm on the trail with a guy who made Oregon Trail. This is beautiful. I'm so excited.

[P] Okay, we're going to go in a Master General store. The concept of a store was present in the original, original one. You had to buy a few things here. I switched up a little bit in terms of what you buy. For instance, I added spare parts and several other things.

Now, the kids, so often on the very first trip, will go out without spare parts. They say, "Well, what's the point of spare parts?" And then you get partway out there and you break a wagon tongue, or you break an axle, you break a wheel. And all of a sudden, like, oh, I'm stuck. And the next time they play, they bring spare parts.

[D] That's great. So you build in the failure to create those pain points because education.

[P] Yes. As long as the kids still feel motivated after the failure, and they usually do in this game. They usually say, "I want to do it again. I can try something different. I might even be able to have a good hypothesis as to what went wrong."

So in this case, because I had no spare parts, it's a pretty obvious hypothesis. If I buy some spare parts, it's probably going to help. So let's get two of each of these.

One of the things that was essential for us as we got about halfway through the timeline, it took us like nine to ten months to get it done. About halfway through, as we had an early prototype, only had parts of the game running yet, tested it with kids, see how they reacted. And I found, to my surprise, that they were more empathetic with people dying than I had thought. And it was mainly because of having put in the names of people they knew.

That affected them. And for those few that were seriously affected, they would then resolve not to put in the names of people they knew after that. But for most of them, it was more like, "Oh, I am responsible for these people. I am going to have to be more responsible on my next time through this game."

[D] Being the guy that led the team, one of many people that worked on The Oregon Trail, one of the most important games ever, what are your thoughts on the value of video games? Why are video games valuable to people at the soul level?

[P] I think humans were meant to play. We work; we also play. We need to have play as part of our lives. And video games are one way that we can have the outlet for this play. And play involves not just recreation; it often involves imagination. So even though in a video game, maybe much of that's presented on the screen, you're having to fill in other details.

There's a lot of imagination going on. It can also, and I think, open up your mind to things you hadn't thought about before, regardless of whether it's educational or not. At least you can put your mind into a new direction.

[D] The Oregon Trail development team was limited to just over half a megabyte on a floppy disk. Games today have millions of times that amount of space and processing power. So it's not necessarily the technology that makes it entertaining and engaging; it's the vision behind it.

So let's do this. Let's go meet with some of the Philip Bouchards of today and see what their philosophy is towards making and creating good video games.

All right, so we are in Seattle now with Gordon at PAX. What is PAX?

[G] It's the Penny Arcade Expo, and it's a game developer trade show, basically. So fans get to come try games before they've come out, or after they've come out. They get to meet the developers.

[D] So what's an independent game?

[G] An independent game, technically, is a game that is not owned by a publicly traded company. That's the technical definition.

[D] So Fish Game is an independent game because you built it.

[G] It is an independent game.

[D] You built it.

[G] Yes.

[D] Okay. So Gordon was my trail guide, so to speak, into this new world of modern video game development. I got a sense of people's excitement and passions when they announced that the doors were opening, and people literally cheered. And they hustled to get in line to play the newest games that were just coming out.

The respect given to Gordon in this room was incredible. People were recognizing him from all over the world from different projects they had worked on together. Throughout the day, we got to check in on new kinds of games from indie developers to major studios and everything in between.

I saw farming simulators. I always like to start people out the first time playing in The Combine Harvester. I saw the latest in virtual reality gaming. It was mind-blowing. But what impressed me the most was the thoughtfulness of the people that I got to talk to.

So Ryan, you produce a bunch of games and publish them. What would you say a good game makes you feel?

[R] For me, I actually like the act of learning. Actually, losing feels good to me because if you're winning all the time and playing a competitive game and winning all the time, you're probably not actually learning much because you're just executing your plan. It worked. Then you play again. Oh, my plan worked. That's not fun. I actually like it when I lose and I try to think like, "Yeah, what could I have done better?"

[D] The pain of losing actually refines you and makes you better.

[R] Exactly. Yeah, actually. There are some games like World of Warcraft or a lot of traditional RPGs where you level up over time by gaining XP, by fighting monsters. Your numbers go up; you gain levels; you get stronger. I actually don't like games like that very much because you get stronger just by time, by effort, rather than actually by learning.

I'm not sure if you know there's a genre of games called Rougelike. One of our games, Crypto the Necrodancer, is one of the early indie Rougelike games. Those ones, when you die, you lose everything. You start over again.

[D] Rougelike?

[R] Yeah. There was an old game in the '80s called Rogue, and it was one of the first to do this type of thing where you die and completely start over again.

[D] So the stakes are high.

[R] Now there's a genre of games called Rougelikes that are similar to that. When you die, you don't keep any of your experience; you don't keep any of your equipment or whatever. You only keep what you learned.

And so people always call it grinding, in games where you level up, you gain experience over time and you level up; they call that grinding. And in Rougelikes, you don't grind to get stronger; you grind your soul to get better and stronger and smarter at the game.

[T] I feel like games do a really good job of putting you in someone's shoes. I feel like you can understand someone else's worldview.

[D] Really?

[T] Yeah, I feel like games are a really empathetic medium. It's just like, okay, this is straight from someone's brain. This is their creation. This is what they want you to experience. I feel like there's a lot of value in that.

[B] Flows well; that's what feels right. Just the feeling of continual accomplishment through a level or through a moment, that's the thing that I think I crave in games the most. I think it gives me a false sense of accomplishment in a good way. Like in times where I'm having a really bad day, you achieve a little thing, and that just helps you a lot.

[S] I also love games that provide some kind of knowledge or new experience or even just thoughts about yourself.

[D] How will a good game change you?

[S] I'm into games that make you reflect on your own thoughts on things, right? So maybe you haven't thought a lot— particularly, I Was a Teenage Exocolonist deals with a lot of questions about the future of humanity and how we should approach expansionism, environmentalism, colonialism.

If you haven't put deep thoughts into those things, you will have by the end of my game. I'm not trying to put new thoughts in your head necessarily, but make you consider how you feel about a subject, see it from different points of view, and just be able to think about it yourself and figure out how you feel about it.

[D] It's not about wasting time; it's about growing as a person.

[S] Yes.

[D] Really?

[S] But also about wasting time.

[D] In a good way?

[S] In a good way.

[N] When you're playing a game, you experience the buttons, you experience the controls, and then that creates some almost like a dynamical system. I know you're an engineer guy, right?

There's some dynamics to it. Then there's an emergent behavior, and that emergent behavior is the emotion. When you're making a game, it's the exact opposite approach. The first thing we think of in our head when we're making games is what is the need? What's the point of this? Why would you want this? What is the feeling that I want you to feel? And then I try to figure out what is the emergent behavior. And then I actually build the axioms in reverse.

[G] I think my favorite thing a game can do is introduce, like, have a very, very weird idea that you've never really thought of before. In a weird space that you've never been in, and build a bridge from the life you know to this weird other reality. That's really fun because it's like, yeah, you get people somewhere they're not expecting, but you show them the path to get there.

Does that make sense?

[D] Yeah.

[G] I think that's really, really fun and valuable because when you've played a game that can do that for you really successfully, I know it can be a life-changing experience.

[D] Challenges are a good thing. It's good to overcome challenges, and games give us that.

[D] I don't know why, but I was surprised by the thoughtfulness of all these game developers. And I don't know what that says about me, but I didn't expect that. Every one of them wanted to create a new world, a world that would somehow stretch you either philosophically or artistically, cognitively.

These new worlds would challenge you, and then you have to stretch and adapt to operate within that new world. So it appears a good video game stretches us and pushes us somewhere new.

All right, Gordon, so Fish Game.

[G] Yeah.

[D] Why are you making Fish Game?

[G] It wasn't super planned, I think. I wanted this game to exist. So I put it out in the world via a tweet that just said, "If somebody makes this game, I would throw some money at it." And then Ryan and Aaron actually messaged me and were like, "Hey, we'd try. We'd take a crack at that."

So we did. We took a little crack, and then we took a bigger crack, and then I told you about it. And then we took a real big swing after that. But yeah, it has been like... I think we've talked about it a lot where it's like, "Make the stuff that you want to see and make the game you want to play."

I always write the music that I want to listen to. Making something that you want and you will enjoy is a really good way to go because I'm not a unique snowflake. And if I like something, other people are probably going to like it too. And yeah, it was just something I wanted to exist.

[D] When Gordon first told me about it, I could tell that it was in your soul. I was like, "I would love to help you with this." I really wanted it to be called Fish Game.

[G] Yes.

[D] Did you have a name?

[G] You said, "I'm in... It has to be called Fish Game."

[Destin laughing] We couldn't think of anything better.

[D] Have I made a mistake?

[G] No. Well, when we... There was a point where we thought we were going to have to change it, so we came up with lists of dozens and dozens and dozens of names. And none of them were better. It is. It's what it has to be called.

[D] And so what's the website?

Fish dot game

fish.game

[Destin dying laughing]

[D] I feel stupid.

[G] I think we also bought Fish.gamegame.

[D] Yeah.

[G] Fish Game the game.

[D] I can remember the early days of talking to Gordon about Fish Game, and he would say things like, "I just want it to feel nurturing." I thought that was beautiful.

So to make an idea an actual reality, a good playful game, what do you do? Gordon made first contact with the development team, Ryan and Aaron, on Twitter, and then Rachel came on as a producer for our first small little team. After that, Gordon built out the team, and a lot of people got involved because it's a really big task.

When you look back at the team's notes and discussions early on, it looks like a mix of brainstorming, scientific research, and design that's all happening at the same time. It started as lists, just ideas, notes, different species, their behaviors, what they like to do, that slowly morphed into a detailed database of fish behavior, all the different parameters quantifying emotions and physical traits, like what pH each species prefers, or if they're loners, or do they prefer schooling?

These small fish rules create fascinating emergent behaviors based on actual science. The color of the fish, that was a whole thing. Do we make the colors algorithmically or do we do it by hand, like painting with a paintbrush?

How do we handle hardscape? How do players move things, translation, rotation, and scale? Do we want players to be able to put a little fish in with a tank full of piranhas? Yes, we do. And yes, we did.

The plants are almost just as important as the fish. Ryan made the code, and then we would test it, and then he would refine the code, and then we would test it in a bigger way. We talked to publishers to try to figure out the best way to release the game. And ultimately, we decided to release it here as an independent game to you.

After years of working with them over email and video calls, Gordon and I were super excited that we finally got to meet Aaron and Ryan out at PAX in Seattle.

Aaron, you've had to become a fish expert, right?

[A] Yes. So a lot of research on fish behavior, fish needs, specifically what they need in a tank, plants, hardscape, water temperature, pH, all of the chemicals. The simulation of this ecosystem bouncing against each other is an interesting puzzle, and we think that is really fun.

Putting that with taking care of a pet that you love or are interested in, have been followed, and following its little life story. So the game part of it can just help people discover what's already really cool about keeping fish. Accessible to people who've never kept fish while also really enjoyable by seasoned veterans in the fishkeeping world.

Ryan and Aaron solved so many little problems. One of my favorite, again, is the color of the fish. So in our Fish Creator, we have the ability to change various parts of the fish.

Ryan built this from scratch. Did you really? It's really cool. Ryan built this from scratch.

Yeah, so you can make things in very special software to make assets.

But what's best is to make the game in the game so you can see it happening. You can make it completely transparent under its scales. That's beautiful. Thank you.

Okay, here we go. Fish Game. You can go to the URL, which is fish.Game, you don't have to type in dot com, and it's right there. Click on the Steam link, load it up on Steam, and you can play it.

So I started playing by setting up my tank, and I immediately felt immersed in a different world. Just moving the sand was really satisfying. It felt like a game within a game. The first thing I did was go to the shop to get some fish and stuff. It struck me because there was a familiarity to what I was doing.

Decades ago, I had bought supplies in the shop on the Oregon Trail to start an adventure, and this felt the exact same way. I picked out my fish and my plants. As I named my fish, I suddenly understood what Philip was trying to tell me. I was instantly emotionally attached to a digital representation of a fish.

I worked hard to keep them alive by managing their food supply, their oxygen, their shelter. I was responsible for accommodating for their instinctual, emotional needs. The responsibility of running this tank felt just like the responsibility of being the team leader on the Oregon Trail.

I found that my favorite thing to do was just click on my Blue Beta, William Wallace, and watch him interact in the tank. He would guard his territory, and he would check things out. I really liked the way the camera follows the fish, so you get to see the world from their perspective.

As I watched my fish, I could feel myself being stretched, just like all those developers said a good game would stretch you. I could feel myself being transported to another world, a world that I was learning about and looking at in a whole new way.

And now that I've played Fish Game, I have an appreciation for real fish that I didn't have before. And it's fascinating to me that Gordon and the team could give me that through a game they made. A good game.

I think Gordon did it. He captured that nurturing emotion that he set out to capture. And it's not just me. When my wife, Tara, came out to the shop to play Fish Game for the first time, watch this.

[Tara Gasps!]

What? What happened?

He is not being nice.

What is William Wallace?

William Wallace is eating Princess Buttercup.

What?

He's protecting.

No, he bit her.

Like, she doesn't have a tail anymore.

Really? She's not going to live.

[D] Should we protect her?

Why should we do that?

Wanted to hide the cave, but couldn't find one.

You need to put a cave.

While Tara and I positioned this dive helmet for Princess Buttercup to hide in, I've got something really fun. I've got two really smart friends, Shane from Stuff Made Here and Gavin from the Slomo Guys. I asked them if they would do me a favor and play Fish Game and just see what they thought.

Now, before we start this, if you were a fish, whose aquarium do you think you would rather live in? Let's see how they did.

All right, it's fish time.

Okay, Fish Game. I know what it's about. Six fish are mine. All right, let's fill her up.

Oh, no. What? They're already dead?

No. They were in here for two seconds.

I think two fish could easily live in here.

Hey. They're looking around. That's good.

Okay. All right, Fish Mountain.

I have two tanks.

See if they kill each other now.

I'll put that there.

Another one died?

Are you kidding? They're dying as fast as I can get them in here from the shop.

There you go, lads. Eat up.

So far, so good.

Big boys.

They died again?

Change water.

Oh! Oh! Oh, okay. I thought I'd pulled the plug there for a second.

Stop gasping for air. I'm working on it.

Let's clean the glass.

Let's vac up the fish excrement.

Oh, that's satisfying.

Here's some fish that won't die.

You guys look hardy.

I'm going to name you Dinner Plate.

It's already dirty again.

You guys try to kill each other faster than my kids.

It's a very Zen game.

Needs different...

Oh, my goodness.

This is ridiculous.

Well, I think.

Overall, this is going swimmingly.

Barely even left them for a second.

Oh, come on.

Dinner Plate died of hunger.

That's ironic.

Well, all my fish are dead.

Destin and your game.

All right, I hope you enjoyed this video. Please go check out Fish Game at fish.Game. You don't have to type dot com—that's the whole URL; you see it in the logo there. Go get the game, check it out.

And if it does well enough, I hope we can add even more things, like custom 3D models you can put in the tanks. But we need it to perform well here at the beginning. So if you play it and like it, please tell your friends.

A huge thanks to everyone that worked on this video. This was a monumental effort by a lot of people. And I'm proud of Gordon. I mean, this is something that he's wanted for a really long time, and he made it happen.

And I'm so very proud of Gordon. And I'm thankful for all the years that Gordon has helped me with Smarter Every Day, and I'm thankful for you considering going and getting this game because it's a big deal.

Anyway, that's it. I'm Destin. You're getting Smarter Every Day. I hope you enjoy Fish Game. Have a good one. Bye.