Aoife O'Sullivan: Expert Aviation Lawyer Reveals All
Hi, I'm Steve Varzano with the Jet Business in London, and we're here today to start with episode one of an interview about the aviation industry. Today, I have with me IFA O'Sullivan from the Air Law Firm. She is one of the most notorious expert aviation experts in the legal system, not only in the UK but all around the world in the commercial and corporate aviation world. So today, we're going to talk to you about how somebody actually gets started in that kind of business.
Nice to see you.
Thanks, Steve. Nice to be here. I appreciate you starting our new episode series here. I've always admired your ability in this industry, which is a sea of male-dominated lawyers, and for really stepping out of that whole mold and standing out way above most of them.
I'm curious, how did you actually get into not just the legal system, but how did you really start and get fascinated by the aviation system? Maybe just give me a little bit of background on how you started and how you got into aviation.
I mean, how did I get into the legal system? It was actually my father. I wanted to buy a horse, and he told me if I became a lawyer—because I kid you not—if I became a lawyer, I could find my own. I actually started out in London in M&A in Clifford Chance, so I did that for a very long, very long hours. Then, I went off to do funds work in the Cayman Islands for a couple of years.
When I came back, one of the agents I was talking to—I was looking to go back into magic circle—and she said, "Look, I think you should meet these people. I think you'd like them." An age was a startup firm, Gates and Partners, and I literally joined within the first three weeks. We just developed that firm into—I think by the end we had about 60 lawyers, five offices, etc.—and then merged it in 2013.
How we came about to be the Air Law Firm is John Krasnowski, who's my partner, and I just decided to take it back to boutique because it's just easier to be flexible. I think this industry really needs that flexibility. You need to be able to give fixed fees if they want fixed fees. If they want you to show up at a show in Dubai, you show up at a show in Dubai. That's a little bit more difficult if you're billing every six minutes, you know, that kind of thing. So, it's just a different mindset.
What would you say is the profile of your typical client?
You know, somebody asked me that recently. We probably, I would say, 95% on the corporate jet side. We do both commercial airline work and corporate jets. On the corporate jet side— and I mean this quite sincerely— predominately business people. We tend to sit more on the owners and buyers or sellers of jets rather than on the financier side. That was actually a conscious decision because there was more competition in the legal field, but they were all pretty much concentrating on working for the big banks. So we figured right, we'll go the other side— and that must be what, 18, 20 years ago now?
A lot of the work now comes in from referrals from these people, you know— we've used her before. She did a great job, you should use her as well. So most of it is referral work.
And you think what percentage is the commercial airlines versus corporations?
Personally, I don't do much commercial myself at all. I much prefer the corporate jet world. It's very challenging. I mean, you know this as well as me: the deals are complicated, and for some reason, in the last five years, they seem to be coming even more and more complicated. For a lawyer, you kind of thrive off the complication and sorting out the problems and just making the transactions happen.
On the litigation side of the firm, they're probably more predominantly on the commercial airline side. You think you're probably dealing with more of the in-house counsel of these individuals, the CEOs of the company, and I deal directly with them.