Watch Experts Review The Most Unique Pieces l Mr. Wonderful x Wrist Enthusiast

[Music] Hi everyone, I'm Craig from R Enthusiast and today I have something special. I'm here with Kevin O'Leary from Shark Tank. Hi Kevin, great to be here!

Thank you so much. I'm a big fan, by the way.

Thank you, thank you very much. What I like to do first when I do these types of interviews is just do a quick wrist check. What do you got on your wrist today?

In New York City for the day, doing a lot of media, I wear two pieces now. One is New York time—I'm wearing an Elegant from FPJ, which I consider or used to be an entry-level watch from Joran—but such a functional piece, so easy to work with. And I was also wearing, before I took it off to put it on the tray, just one of my favorite Daytonas with Abu Dhabi time on it. So I have New York time, Abu Dhabi time.

I have so many people working with me now in Abu Dhabi. I don't like to wake them up at 2:00 in the morning because I keep forgetting how many hours it’s shifted. But those are my two, and I will often wear six different pieces: two in the morning, two at lunch, and switch out for nighttime.

Yeah, I'm only wearing one watch right now, but I'm wearing the Gerard Perregaux Neo Bridges Meteorite. This came out a month ago and I really like it. I mean, I like skeletonized dial watches, but I feel like this is very symmetrical, which you don’t really get on—well, the skeleton watches were very controversial in the early days. People thought they were unfinished works, and obviously, now they’re great conversation pieces—particularly well known in terms of how crazy it looks. But it's beautiful!

You have the big bridge that Gerard Perregaux is known for; it's a little bit bigger than I normally wear—44 mm. But it's—yeah, but you're wearing it well. Sometimes a 44 doesn’t fit for various reasons, that one does. It looks great! I would have put a red band on it, of course.

Yeah, well we'll get into that. The first question I kind of wanted to ask is a little bit about your collecting journey, right? The first time I saw you ever mention watches on Shark Tank was, I think, in 2018. It was a Christmas show and you asked Santa for a 5711 with a blue dial—blue dial, I mean—which has become one of the most sought-after watches in the world.

What struck me is that was the time I bought a Royal Oak, but it was like right before everything kind of went crazy. I mean, things were starting to go up. I don't know that you mentioned it ever before, but then since then, you're talking about watches a lot. Did something change kind of around that time that got you even deeper into the hobby?

When I was young, my birth father died when he was quite young—he was 37—and my mother remarried. My stepfather started working with the United Nations, and we traveled every two years to different countries—Japan, Ethiopia, Cyprus, Tunisia. I thought everybody had a youth like that, but it turned out to be quite extraordinary. I met Hailé Selassie in Ethiopia, I met Pol Pot in Cambodia. I mean, that was a pretty wild ride!

But at some point in a UN official's career, they have to choose New York or Geneva as the city where they settle down, and he chose Geneva. Right through my teen years, I would often go there, and he got me into watches. I mean, I went to the Patek Museum when I was a teenager in Omega Le Ambassador and all of the different boutiques and brands right on Lake Léman, right on Lake Geneva.

And my very first piece was a 1975 Moonwatch Speedmaster.

Do you still have it?

I do! And that really, really got me hooked. Then I went down the Rolex journey, and watch collecting is a disease. You don't need 50 watches, 60 watches, 200 watches. You do that because you—you're diseased; you have a virus. And it's a curse to many people.

I truly enjoy it! I love the community globally that I'm involved with—you're supporting artists; that’s what you're doing there. No different than collecting modern art.

How has your collecting kind of changed over the years? I saw you were wearing, I think, this Moser to a congressional hearing recently, and it seems to me you're getting kind of more into obscure or independent brands.

How has it changed from the beginning? Because I know that, you know, when I started, you think of like Rolex and Breitling and Omega, and then you kind of progress to different types of brands. How has your collecting changed and where are you now?

I think we all in some ways take a similar journey. It starts with the first watch you can afford. You know, then you experience the joy of owning a piece that at that time is your whole world because maybe you just spent $2,000 on something when you're barely making $25,000 a year—back then, that was certainly the case for me.

And then I went through the typical journey of: I have to own every Rolex; I have to own every Patek; I've got to own the vertical of every Omega, you know? And sort of every AP and all the major—you think about the three horsemen: Rolex for sure, AP for sure, Patek Philippe for sure. And I have a lot of pieces.

And then your mind starts to drift into where else can I go, what else can I do? For me, it's always been about the dial. So when you look at the Genta designs that have been the hallmark of greatness around an AP, for example, that is the DNA of the piece. But it also holds you back from exploring new dials.

Some people get into the tech stack of a watch and they have to own every caliber, and I respect every collector's desire to pursue those verticals because I've met many that say, "Look, I've got every single, you know, AP ever made with the Genta design in it." Great, but the average person can’t discern one from the other very often—maybe the metal.

But for me, it's style, and so now I'm in this very difficult situation: where—why is this next piece coming into the collection? Why does it deserve a slot? What makes it unique to all of its, you know, brothers and sisters that are already in the collection?

Do you sell anything when you get a new piece?

I never—I have never sold a piece. And I do it for a specific reason. I've learned over the decades that the reason I get unique opportunities with all kinds of unique watchmakers is they know I'm a true collector. It's a one-way ticket—it comes into the collection; it's never leaving the collection. I've had incredible offers for my pieces—insane offers!

Yeah, I've done crazy offers for that piece, this kind of went viral a little bit.

It did because I really was moved. I waited two years. I was so part of the design of this. So even consulting, I was so adamant about it that it hold its heritage from the mid-7273, that it be made in the metal that was created by its creator.

And this was not easy for them to do yeah, to place this bevel in here—but here it is with a red sweep. I mean, this is a classic Shark Tank with a red factory band. It was a rock star when it showed up! I have been unable to insure it.

Really? It's a one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable?

They'll never do it again!

I just wonder, and I think a lot of my subscribers would wonder too, how does one even get to the point where AP will make them something like that?

Well, I think it was the narrative we were having just before we talked about this particular piece. Their management knows and their team knows that I don't do this as an investment. It has nothing to do with money for me. I'm a believer in what they've created and the DNA of this watch and what it means in a collection—and how important it is to even ever establish yourself that they would consider making a piece unique.

Because that is an honor that you can't get until you've been a collector for decades. And I'd argue you have to be known by all the brands because within the community—particularly with the three horsemen: Patek, you know, AP, Rolex—if you breach the—I'm not even going to call it a moral contract, just—if you flip watches, if you take advantage of your status, you're blackballed for life. And it should be that way; you should make way for people that are real patrons that really do this to support watchmaking.

And I'm one of those. I would never sell any of these watches. I don't even sell my Hamiltons because they've been with me, and they have a—there's a reason I own them. It's that; it's the true meaning of the relationship between the collector and the brand.

One of the things that I found is, you know, when I review a lot of watches, I can kind of touch and feel almost anything at this point, and it kind of sometimes makes buying like lose its luster. How do you keep, like, the thrill of the hunt when you have that access and ability to get maybe whatever it is you want?

I speak to some of the largest collectors in the world very often. We share our interests and we share just our, you know, our love of the watches, and we share our new pieces and what we've collected. And I would say about two years ago or maybe it was a year and a half ago, I had lunch with Clo Safir in Dubai. Of all the people I've met, I don't believe there is a man with more passion for watch collecting or has more, yeah, in his collection—anybody.

Maybe a member of the royal family, but I’m not sure. With me, there was another member of the UAE, a minister, and he said, "What are you thinking about Simo Brit? What do you—?" Because he had just won the young watch collector's award granted by FPJ himself. Again, this will happen again on the 9th of April. I’ll be there for that dinner in Geneva.

If you think about what's going on there, it's one great watchmaker passing on the baton to the next. I looked at Brit’s designs on a dial basis and I was blown away. Yep, which is this one right here. This is the Simone Brit, and that is the prototype. There are five prototypes—number one and number five he’s keeping in his collection forever.

Remember, he is a G-S subcontractor from the tire company that moved into watch design, and he has up to 14 different artists designing pieces for these compilations. But I reached out to him, and I was very fortunate he knew who I was. And that’s the whole idea of your heritage as a collector. And I said, I'm really interested in the prototype.

Yeah, I know you're only going to do prototypes for titanium. Will you sell me one? And he said yes. And so I wired over, you know, half the purchase price years before I knew I was ever going to receive the piece—it hadn't even been made—and I recently went to Geneva to pick it up.

That moment of actually, you know, you can look at digital images of a watch—you’ll notice the numerals are red, you see that? Yeah, that's to match the one-of-a-kind red band. It's the only one with a red band on, and that's the only one with red numerals.

Mhm, that's a piece unique in itself, but it's also the only one with red, and I asked him for that because, you know, this whole red thing—we can talk about that—but it is what it is, and you don't get to do that with a watchmaker unless they totally trust you.

Yeah, because he has had one of his pieces flipped. Whoever that person is, in my view, should never be allowed to buy another watch.

Yeah, ever! Any watch. Any watch from anywhere. Any—just—that is—you just don’t do that! You at least would, let's say you’re in financial distress, you would at least contact the maker and explain your situation. You would 100% do that.

Why in the world would you? Anyway, don’t get me going. Are there any watches that you really want that even you can’t get? Like a Tiffany Blue Nautilus, for example?

Yeah. I have a 5711. I've thought a lot about that. There are not a lot of pieces I can't get, you know? It's—and I don’t want that to sound arrogant.

Yeah, but it has to now fit into this extension of what we're talking about. It’s got to be a piece unique!

Yeah, imagine my wife watching me come home with watches and saying to me, "You've got to see somebody! We don’t even have enough vault space for this anymore! This is insane!" She’s partly right!

Yeah, but there’s no point in me buying more production watches! I get offered production watches every day, but why? I mean, like, I need to go off-piece here. I’ve got to be in a place where when I pick it up, I say, “Now I know why this is in the collection.” And that’s where I’m getting into this space of these really unique pieces.

Yeah, and of course working with makers for these one-of-a-kind, as I did with Joran, as I'm doing with others. And, you know, in the case of Simon, I want to have each metal. I want the gold and I want the platinum.

You know, I use Bros as almost like a consultant, and John Reard and others, thinking through the moves in the portfolio. He knows my whole portfolio, so it's really great to have that kind of different opinion.

Yeah, because I can't talk to my wife about it. Her answer is stop!

I was actually in Cleveland about a month ago interviewing Teddy Baldasar for the opening of his new store, which is great. And he gets a lot of questions about whether you’re an investor in his business. And he answered that question and said no, you're not. You just—you met, and you like doing videos together.

Have you ever approached him to invest? Would you ever think about investing in either a watch retailer or a watch brand?

I was there last week shooting with Teddy. We shot the new store; I consider him a great friend. What I liked about the whole journey with Teddy—and it started years ago—was I never considered the responsibility of promoting watch collecting and making sure that the new generation had a point of entry.

And so I was always talking about, you know, these incredibly complex movements and these crazy prices. And Teddy called me up and said, "Kevin, you've got a lot of followers on this watch journey, and you've got a lot of people in their teens and 20s watching Shark Tank. They know you wear these red bands. Why aren’t you talking about entry-level pieces? Why aren’t you talking about Tudor? Why aren’t you talking about Hamilton? Why aren’t you talking about Grand Seiko? Why aren’t you talking about, you know, all of these brands?"

And I said, "Teddy, what are you talking about? I mean, I don't collect that stuff!"

He said, "Why not? Why aren’t you collecting that stuff?" So we started shooting stuff together and doing these buying sprees, which became immensely popular and were wildly successful.

And I totally agree with him now that every time I do something about, you know, talking about watch pieces, I talk about a couple of things that I learned from Teddy. First of all, he got me into many brands—I bought my first Hamilton with him.

Yeah, I bought all kinds of eclectic brands that he actually represents through his store. I am not an investor with him, and here’s why: I don’t have any investments in watch retailers or resellers. I want to be known as the true Switzerland of watch collecting.

I don’t endorse watch brands; nobody pays me to do that. I don’t want free watches from watch brands; I don’t want to be beholden to anybody. If I buy a piece, it's because I want to own it, and I’m honored to buy it! I don’t want anything given to me; I buy them.

Yeah, I do that because I want to be treated with respect. In terms of, you know, I'm not a bot guy, but I also have another motive—to be transparent with you.

I have been looking at the watch insurance industry worldwide now for five years—yeah, how broken it is! Because I look at my own situation, and I’m launching Wonder Care in Geneva on April 7th—a new platform for watch insurance. I'm going to start in the United States, then we're going to go to the UAE, and then we're going to do Europe.

It's really complex to do this! The first problem is most people think their home package will solve when they lose their watch or stolen, but it doesn't work. Because most home packages, many depreciate the value of the underlying insured piece. So if you buy a Rolex, just a Daytona, this does not depreciate over time; it appreciates in value.

And so you can’t replace it if you lose it five years later or ten years later, or it's stolen the day after you buy it—even at retail. And so the whole idea of Wonder Care is to let you take a portion of what—even if it’s one watch or two or three—and ensure it for between 1.7% and 2.1% of its value on an annual basis.

But as you say, if it's being stored in a vault or in a bank safety deposit box, you don’t need to ensure that. It's what you keep traveling with or in your home. Perhaps you want to ensure, and that’s really why we launched Wonder Care—to solve for that.

I have great partners in that business; I'm working on it for three years, and we're taking it easy wanting to get it right. The way I tested the demand for it—I’m very fortunate, I have about 8.6 million followers across all the different social media platforms. I said, "Look, this is a test. How many of you would like to use Wonder Care to buy watch insurance?"

Thousands of policy requests!

Yeah, so I knew okay, let’s get this thing going.

I was thinking I had done a little bit of research on Wonder Care before; I was like—and then I saw that it’s not going to be in Europe. I was hoping to be able to use it for Geneva when at Watches and Wonders—it won't start there, but it will be there within 36 months. You have no idea about the complexity of the reinsurance between different countries! I will get there because I need it!

Because I travel, you know, with as many as 17 to 20 pieces when I go to Watches and Wonders, and that's an annual event for me.

I know that you don't invest in watches or see watches as investments for yourself, but do you see them as investments more generally? And where do you kind of see the market going? Because we're in a little bit of a downturn, but where do you see it going kind of from here on out?

Yeah, no I do! I marked to market my watch collection because for insurance purposes I have to do that. We're down 28% on average, but not every brand is down that much. I think most people index Rolex with 1.2 million in production, and the secondary market has softened, but not that much compared to other assets.

The peak of watch collecting was 2020-2021 during the mania around Bitcoin. Yeah, when you saw brands like Richard Mille and others just skyrocket around this idea of, you know, a form of storage of value. And in fact, in Asia, watches have become just that!

Try and get a ACH; you know they make 60,000 watches a year. If you're not a collector, it's very hard to get any of them. And so generally speaking, they appreciate as well. They are good investments, but if you're only buying watches as investments, you're not a collector.

I mean, collectors—I don't consider this a liquid asset because I'm never going to sell it. I'll tell you how I use to get the mean market value: I take WatchCharts and I take Chrono24, I take the mean value of both, and then I discount by 21%. That kind of gives me a baseline price because there's a lot of distortion in both those platforms. But it's a good bottom line, and you can look at practically any watch across those.

I'm always interested in just knowing which watches are holding value and which aren't, but it really doesn't change my mind about collecting them. But then you see something like a Simo Brit—I think I paid 880,000 Swiss Francs—and then the one that the guy flipped was 450!

Yeah, I mean, there's some real distortions. We should talk about what happened last week in Miami—the boutique of the sale of the pink elegant. Most people thought, "Okay, it's going to go for $100,000," which would be somebody gifting to a charity.

Yeah, it got up to $300,000, and it stalled for a few minutes! It was a 10-minute auction, and then a voice from Asia came over the phone and bought it for $420,000.

Yeah, that's a record by any measure, any metric! That triggered, um, you know, people started asking, "Okay, what happened there?" because that buyer did not get a tax write-off!

Yeah, this is an American charity; it was some American buyer. It's probably, you know, for Joran, it affirms what's happened to that brand.

Yeah, he is literally the living Picasso of watchmaking right now—I mean, period. But it also makes you wonder what that does for people that are interested in buying a Joran—that's going to be very difficult for them.

Yeah, I mean, Joran's got this tremendous balance he’s got to deal with. He's got to deal with his collectors that made him what he is, and I luckily fall into that group, but he needs to bring in new people.

And I would argue—and I think they have gone to this metric—two-thirds collectors, one-third new, and they have to select who comes into the family to expand the brand around the world.

I've heard rumors that he doesn’t want anyone making watches once he's gone.

Do you think the brand will survive him?

Here's how I think about it: I'm just one collector. There is going to be two periods of the Joran brand: Joran when he was alive and Joran when he's not with us anymore.

I am going to get every single Joran I’m offered during the Joran-is-alive period. And I say that with conviction! I am convinced that his brand—first of all, it survived independence, you know? You understand you start like a Simo Brit and you're an independent, and the risk is what happens if Simon gets run over by a truck in Geneva tonight? He only makes one watch a month, and you take that risk buying them.

But Joran is in a different place. Joran has become, in some people's minds, the fourth horseman. Yeah, the collectors—you know the calibers inside out, they know the history of every piece, and you can see what's happened with the early movements—they're selling in auction for over $2 million from the most base metals, brass.

I think that it's a—nobody can live forever, but most of us wish him the longest of lives because I don't know what’ll happen afterwards. We're going to have to service these watches in perpetuity, but I know I want mine made while he's alive.

Yeah, that makes sense. Mr. Wonderful here. No one needs a watch, but everybody wants one. Why? Because it marks a moment of time in your life—a graduation, a marriage, a successful moment in your career. It’s like art. Many watches appreciate in value over time, and that’s where the problems start.

You might think your watch is covered by your home insurance policy, but in many cases, that is simply not true—especially if you're looking for replacement value if your watch is lost or stolen.

That's why I created Wonder Care. Want to learn more about ensuring your watch? Go to wondercare.com.

So I know you've talked about this in a lot of interviews—why you wear a red strap on your watches for continuity and it’s kind of become your staple. Are there any watches where you think you shouldn’t put a red strap on?

The one watch that comes to my mind off the top of my head is something like a Moser Streamliner where the bracelet is just so much a part of the design of the watch. Are there any watches that you would buy and say, "I can’t put the red strap on it?"

There are 5711. The bracelet for that is part of the heritage of the piece, and I own a 5711 in its mintage form. I wear it, but it means it can’t take the journey with me onto television. Because the wardrobe designers and wardrobe managers, for continuity—for good or bad—I’m associated with red bands all around the world now, period.

And so the makers know this, and so all of these pieces—including the one-of-a-kind AP, the one-of-a-kind—um, well, this is the vertical tourbillon that was just—this actually has a red K in the 12. Jan did that for me; that took two years. It's got my name on the back. There was never a question it was going to have a red band!

The red pantone matches the red K. This is a beautiful piece. I mean, it’s just ridiculously beautiful, and I wear this proudly. But you know, the thing about continuity in television makes total sense.

And the other fact that I would argue—and I think I'm part of this movement—is men are considering timepieces as fashion extensions. You know this with certainty, of course! And there for a long time, the conservative nature of brown and black bands, and then the metal bands that came with pieces, were considered the only option.

But now you see companies like Rubber B. Create—this is a Rubber B band—look at the perfect integration with the Daytona.

I had a Rubber B band, yeah!

Well, they’re highly desired because this is made in Switzerland at really precision and it looks like it’s a perfect integration! Now, I wear this when I'm doing television and I put back—because, you know, I have a great relationship with Rolex, and they don’t necessarily agree with this, but I have no option if I want to wear this on Shark Tank—and I do!

This has been a staple in every season since for 15 years, and so I need to have that piece, and I wouldn’t wear anything else except the Rubber B—unless Rolex brought factory red, which they haven’t done yet. But I think the demand for different optionality for men on brands is coming hard and fast, and it’s not going away.

And I think we will see a lot more color and texture and design factors in bands for the fashion reasons.

Has Rubber B told you if they've sold more red bands as a result of you wearing them?

Well, I want to disclose—I have no economic interest in the company. I do not—I only talk about it as a customer. I'm a stickler for integration; I don't like a sloppy integration on a piece. I don't want a giant space! I wouldn’t do it—I wouldn't wear it.

I know they sell a lot of red bands. I’m friends with the management, as they have offices in Miami. I’m proud of what happened with red bands. You ask any watch brand about red bands and I would like to think I was very much part of that.

I think you probably are!

Yeah, I think so. I saw that you got your first Richard Mille recently. I think it was the 6701, the extra flat. To me, that just—that's a watch that just says Mr. Wonderful! RM with the rubber straps, and you can throw a red band on it. What took you so long to get into that brand and owning one? How do you feel about it now?

So let me tell you exactly why it was such a long journey into RM. RM is a controversial brand for a lot of reasons. They exploded within the dollar—the story of materials, the ability with shock—all of that—they went through the roof in 2020 with the Bitcoin association with crypto.

The challenge for me on television is the director of wardrobe is the set designers! It’s—Shark Tank is one show, but I do lots of television. And the RM design—and I respect all watch design—is aggressive. Yeah, it's in your face!

If you're on set, on a news set, and you're perhaps holding a pen, and you're—you know, this is very often a situation—maybe on Shark Tank or maybe on ABC News or something—the piece is here, the pen is here, the second piece is here. If it's a Joran, it's a very low profile, yeah, as you can see here. If it's an RM, it's in your face, and often with fluorescent colors.

And so when approached by the brand, I would say I don’t know what to do with you guys! When can you make me something that is going to be more appropriate with the demands of these designers? I’ve got to photograph the piece; I’ve got to show it on my wrist; I’ve got to get approval; it’s got to go; it’s got to have a red band.

Then that 01 came out. Yeah! What a beautiful piece! Now, they've had a lot of trouble making those; they're so thin, it's not in your face, yet it's got the DNA of RM. Yeah, it's beautiful!

And I've had so many compliments over that watch, including—this will show up on Shark Tank!

Okay. That has made the cut! But it's the first one to make the cut. It's not against sports watches; I have plenty of sports watches, but expand your horizons on dial design. It shouldn’t have to light the path at night!

You may say they listen to me; they may not, but I'm not the only person saying that. But you do talk about—like, I think you call them flashy and trashy watch.

I like flashy! And I think you have the Daytona Eye of the Tiger. I saw the Aquanaut with the—it’s Miami!

Yeah, I'm Miami! I’ve got to be flashy trash!

When you go out at night in Miami, it’s flash and trash! You've got to be out there just be jeweled. That’s just the nature of that city, and I love it! I live there; I love it for it! It lets you expand your—there was a time when men would never wear diamonds on their watches. Are you kidding? You need those pieces in Miami!

I mean, I have so much fun with that stuff! And my wife keeps trying to steal them out of my collection to wear them herself! You know that they’re really beautiful, beautiful pieces of jewelry, in addition to fantastic watchmaking. But yes, I have many pieces like that!

And certainly, for a long time on Shark Tank, we were discouraged from wearing jeweled watches because it was just too in-your-face. That's not the case today; they're well accepted. I mean, this is a beautiful piece. It's subtle, but it’s—you know, these are rubies to the whole piece. I love it!

What’s the next flashy watch that you have your eyes on?

There’s an off-catalog Daytona that is covered with rubies. It's the—I call it the Red M.

And I'll tell you how I work with all of the brands. It’s something—you know, I’m half Lebanese, half Irish, and my grandmother taught me something about the culture—Vin culture—which has served me well in the Middle East. You know, I have my residency card in the UAE now.

She told me when I was very young—and she couldn't even speak English; it had to be translated to me—you only ask once! Once!

Mhm, you never have to ask again! If they respect you, they'll remember the ask. They may not give it to you, but Rolex knows if one of those pieces comes to North America, it should be on my wrist, because that is a Shark Tank watch!

Yeah, it’s red; it's going to be spectacular!

When I think about what’s next, it’s not really a production watch. There are off-catalog Rolexes that come through. I mean, like every other collector, I have more Rolexes than anything else. I’ve got every Rolex. I mean, I don’t think there’s a single production Rolex I don’t have, because I went through that initial phase, and they've served me well, and I wear them a lot in the summertime, and I enjoy them.

And you know, it’s funny when you introduce people to watch collecting, they want to go through the Rolexes first!

Yeah, it’s like trading cards—got it, need it, got it!

I love that about Rolex; it's fun! So one of the things I was watching a couple of your videos where you were just talking to the camera and going through your collection, and when you put the watches back, you always kiss them, right? Is that like a superstition? If I do that, will maybe my collection start to rival Mr. Wonderful's collection?

It’s just—it’s just, you know, I really—I mean look at this Moser. I saw this at WatchTime last year in New York.

Yeah!

And I hadn’t taken a Moser onto television yet. This one really spoke to me. I mean the dial; I mean, you see the dial? It’s all about the dial! You know, yada, yada, yada, it’s a tourbillon and the caliber—yada, yada, y—I don’t care! You know, it’s—I’m not like that!

I care about the dial! I mean look at this style!

Yeah, that's a Vantablack, right?

Yeah, I mean, it’s just—you’ve got to kiss that! I mean, that’s a beautiful, beautiful piece! And when I wear this, I wore this testifying at Congress, and many senators came up to me afterwards and said, "What is that?"

Yeah!

I couldn’t help but see it on the cameras. That’s when you know you’ve designed an incredible dial.

Yeah, it’s very simple! I mean the piece is—it’s a fantastic great caliber; everything else—the technology is fantastic—I get it! And it has that beautiful crunch when you're winding it, even though it's an automatic!

It’s so unique; it deserves to be in the collection! And so I’m looking forward to doing more with Moser, but I need piece uniques! I need storytelling! I need amazing dials—there’s no more room in the vaults for production watches! There—I’m just—I’m done!

I need—you know, I need piece uniques!
I have a couple more questions. One is I do a lot of celebrity watch spotting, and I’ve, you know, written about your collection before, and I always wondered what, you know, someone like Kevin O'Leary thinks about other people's collections.

I know that Robert Herjavec from Shark Tank, your co-star, has a pretty great collection. Do you have any collections that you admire from other celebrities and why?

Well, I used to think that I was one of the world’s largest watch collectors. Now that I've been going to the UAE, I am dog-like compared to those guys, and I've been humbled by what I’ve seen and the respect they have for watchmaking and the vast collections—starting with Clo Safir. I realize when I met Clo—I mean I just had to do this! I mean, he knew every caliber of every watch! That guy was off the charts!

He had the prototypes of almost every Joran! Yeah, like this—discovers the makers before they’re born! Like, the guy is unbelievable!

And so all I could be was in awe of them and realize that I am only a student of watch collecting. It’s very important to be humbled like that; it was a sobering awakening for me.

I've since joined the nework psychological society. I really want to be supportive of what we do here stateside, but it's a global pursuit. You know, I’m trying to explain this to my wife—that compared to others, I'm a nothing burger!

And she said, "No, you’re a very sick man, and you have to stop doing this! You just can’t keep coming home with four watches a month!"

And I don’t consider that a lot!

And so it’s sort of—you know, one a week maybe; that sounds crazy! But that’s kind of been the pace of late, because I’m getting such amazing opportunities!

You realize it’s never a destination; the whole thing is a journey!

And the fact that we can sit here and enjoy talking about this is really why I do this! I respect all watch collectors.

Hevik is eccentric; yeah, he has an amazing collection, and I know his collection, but he does go off the piece every once in a while.

If you know, if they were friends, you know their whole collection, so that’s kind of the narrative. It’s almost like wine collecting. Do you really need another bottle of '82 if you've already got the vertical tour? Maybe you should go hope Pran or something, but it’s kind of like that!

But it’s funny because some collectors, they have one brand.

Mhm, I don’t understand that!

Yeah, me neither!

Yeah, I mean, I’m only protect Philippe, and their collections are worth millions.

And they’re vertical of protect, particularly the really unique six—you know, one of six, one of four, one of— that kind of thing. They have a direct relationship maybe with the Stern family, who knows?

Even John Reard, the guy for collectibility on Patek, it will admit that there’s space for other pieces in a collection!

Yeah, what would be your advice for someone to create like a well-rounded collection—whether it’s a five-watch, ten-watch, twenty watches, or even an affordable collection? Or, you know, an expensive.

No, it’s a great question, but I have a rule: you’re not a collector of a brand unless you’ve got three pieces from them!

When Teddy got me into Tudor and I met Adam, the North American CEO, we did a shoot at a Rolex boutique in the meatpacking, and I wasn’t planning on buying any Tudors, but I met him, and I spent the afternoon shooting.

And Teddy's opened my eyes; I’ve got to give the guy credit for a lot of different ideas. I bought four pieces that day because I wanted to become a Tudor collector!

And in fact, I’ve taken it a step past that. Tudor does something remarkable that a lot of people don’t know about: let’s say you founded a company 25 years ago, 30 years ago, 15 years ago, go and you can actually find the original people that were there in that room in the context of Shark Tank.

Sixteen years ago, there were 24 people that shot the pilot for Shark Tank—24 people! They’re still working on the show!

So they’re unique, and in Shark Tank, nobody would have thought it would turn into this global phenomenon. I sat with Adam, and he said, “How would you like me to make you a piece unique with the Shark Tank logo on the watch out of a unique material?”

And I chose silver because I love the way that it changes on everybody's different chemistry with the Shark Tank logo. We’d have to go through the licensing from Sony and everything else, and we will engrave a unique serial number; we will engrave a unique saying.

And I think, for Shark Tank, it’s “One idea can change your life forever,” and we’ll engrave the person’s name on it.

Can you imagine how complex getting a deal done with Rolex like that?

Rolex owns Tudor!

Yeah!

We did that! I funded that as a patron! We will see these watches this June, and I will gift these watches to every one of those 24 people.

Now, that's watch collecting! There’ll be one of those that will have—the Shark Tank logo is yellow, but there’ll be one with a red Shark Tank logo.

I wonder who gets that one!

Are you going to feature it on the show?

I will! And it’ll have a serial number—0000! The 001 is from Mark Burnett; I mean he’s the founder of it!

So, but the 000 is mine—mine will be the only one with a red band!

My kind of final question before we get into this is Watches and Wonders is coming up, specifically with regards to Patek Philippe and Rolex. What do you think we're going to see, and what do you hope to see?

You know, Watches and Wonders is really unique because Basel has gone the way of the dodo bird for various reasons, and various brands have different perspectives about Watches and Wonders. What people don’t realize about the watch community, I tell people that look at the sector, look at the industry—this industry is over 200 years old; nothing happens overnight!

They don’t think that way!

And you shouldn't think that way; nobody should think that way! Watches and Wonders is a gathering of the clan; I call it a flocking. You know some bird species unite once a year—biologists don’t understand this, but they flock to show each other their numbers!

That’s what Watches and Wonders is. Some brands don’t show, some brands do off-piece dinners, some brands show up and do lunches.

If you're into watches, and I am, you've got to be there! I even want to stay for the retail day because I'm going to go over as a collector; I’m going to shoot as much as I can! I enjoy just doing that as a collector because I have a big—you know, the brands know I’ve got millions of followers! So why not work together on this?

I think Watches and Wonders will remain the premier gathering of the flock of watchmakers forever! Yeah, I don’t think it’s ever going to change.

And for all the criticisms about how they decide who shows, who doesn’t—yadda, yadda, my answer is who cares? It’s still Watches and Wonders!

Yeah, so do you think we'll see a like a Coke by Rolex and discontinuance of the Pepsi?

Well, I must say, I didn’t bring it with me, but the puzzle—yeah, I remember when the puzzle first came out, everybody thought it was complete BS. It was like—BS because Rolex would never do that.

And when I found out it was real, I thought, “Oh wow, these guys have really figured out how to bring the next generation into Rolex!” And then when I saw it for the first time, I think the first three that went to North America were John Meyer got the—I think the white gold; Tom Brady got one.

Yeah, Brady got one, and I got the rose gold. And those are the three I know of. Yeah, and it was kind of smart because you got a musician, you got an athlete, and you got a collector-investor guy.

And they actually, for the first time ever, said, “You can bring a video crew to shoot you getting this size.” And I said, “Is this really Rolex I’m talking to? Can it really be true?” And they said, “Yes, it’s Rolex, and we will have someone there when you shoot this.”

And we did! And it just went nuts. I mean, I love that watch, and that’s another watch I’ve been offered crazy money for! I will never sell!

I wonder—I mean they probably don't even make that many of them. Nobody knows, and I think Rolex does a great job in keeping the mystique around pieces like that!

But I must say, of all the digital images you’ve ever seen of that piece, nothing compares to when you see it in person!

I haven't seen it in person!

Let's talk about some of these watches here. So a bunch of these watches were provided by European Watch Company. They're a retailer in Boston. I grew up going to European Watch Company, and you know, like my first few watches—I got a Daytona in 2013 from European Watch Company; IWC in 2008. So my first kind of involvement—what was your first piece when you got into watches?

So I got, from my bar mitzvah, I got a—someone gave you one?

Yes! I got a 36 mm Rolex Day-Date that I still have!

That’s from your parents?

From my parents!

Yeah, I mean that is priceless!

And they—it’s priceless. I’ll never sell it—steel! Steel!

And I mean, they would only let me wear it on special occasions, of course!

Yeah, because you—as a bozo, we going to lose it!

Yeah! And I was really small, and they're like, "This 36 mm watch? He'll never fit on him!" And now it’s, you know, on the smaller side.

So that was like the first real watch that I got, you know? And I was very lucky to get something very nice, and I still have that!

It's right to the idea of watch collecting because it’s part of a very special day in your life.

Well, I say to everyone when I like rationalize buying something, “Oh, this is going to go up in value when I buy it,” you know? But then I never sell it, so it doesn’t even matter!

You got the same?

I have—I get it! Before we talk about the ones from European Watch Company, I wanted to show you this Fleming. So Fleming is a new brand; they launched last Monday—it’s Thomas Fleming!

And I haven't—I’ve never seen one; obviously heard about it. They’re making 41 of these. This is the rose gold variation—price point 485 Swiss Franc—so 48,500.

Who makes the movement?

The movement is made by Krono, yeah, so the case is, I think, by Vacheron, and Kivinin does the dial. So it’s one of the independents that’s really coming at it from the dial design perspective and relying on industry norms in terms of caliber and other elements.

It has a—you can check it out—it has a guilloche around the outside and then hand-hammered mid-portion. This is very well polished, by the way; look at the side of the case!

I mean, it’s polished on the middle part, and then the outsides—you know, 168-hour power reserve with a—and those barrels are actually the logo for the brand.

So he had some modifications done!

Oh yeah, they completely developed it with John France! This is the trend for many independents, and I get why they would do this, because it’s very hard to make all of your own movement!

Yeah! And obviously, most people don’t even do their springs. But this style is very nice—there's no question about it!

What other metals are they exploring?

So there’s, I think, seven in rose gold they’re doing, I think nine in platinum, and 25 in tantalum. They were trying to get me the tantalum—I would like to see the tantalum! The tantalum has an adventuring dial, which is really nice. I would look at the tantalum!

I’ll have to talk to them; the tantalum has been a very interesting metal—controversial, actually. It’s hard to—very hard to work with—it’s been out there for a while; people have been talking about this.

Yeah, Casper Rudd, the tennis star, wears one, and he’s actually investing in the company! The rest of these, these are all from European. We wanted to bring kind of like a big, you know, selection of watches.

Yeah, I know that you have a couple of these!

I have three of those!

Yeah! Which three do you have?

I have the Joran, obviously. I have the 175 Worldtimer—not the hand-enameled one—but I treasure mine because it's very hard to get those!

Yeah, I know!

And I have the Lange!

When people ask me what Patek should I get first, I always say, "Get a Worldtimer!"

Yeah! I mean if you have access to one, it’s the classic ultimate—never going to lose value if you’re concerned about that! But also when you see this from across the room, you know what it is!

Yeah, I mean it’s a Worldtimer! Beautiful!

Can only make a few of them!

I know! But I mean, if you know, if you’re dreaming and you want a Patek, that’s what you want to get.

I actually don’t think you have a Patek collection unless you’ve got at least one Worldtimer!

So I know you like skeleton dials!

Yeah! Have you seen the Parmigiani Tonda?

No, I haven’t! I’ve heard about it, you know, the problem—I think about this for brands, when I talk to them, I have to talk piece unique!

Yeah! Which is a huge problem!

Yeah, and they—and you know this is not going to take a red band, obviously!

Mhm!

And so it puts me in a bit of a lock box for new brands, but this is beautiful! I mean, again, this is a great dial design!

Yeah!

This has a richness to it that is very well thought out and well designed. Let me ask you, is it easier to get an independent or a big brand that's part of a group to do a piece unique for you?

I feel like the independence—they're the same! Now, I get PE uniques from big brands; I get piece uniques from independents!

Independents is whether or not they want the notoriety! Simone did not! Yeah, he just—he’s got a thousand orders; he only makes one a month!

He doesn’t need any more demand! But his piece was so beautiful, and so many people asked me about it, it ends up being—anytime people ask me about piece uniques, I bring it because it’s—there’s nothing like that dial!

Will this be on Shark Tank?

Yes, it will be!

Okay! And I guess this is a little bit controversial, but I think everyone likes MB&F, even if it's their more kind of standard Legacy machine line as opposed to the horological machine.

Have you seen the Bulldog yet?

I have!

I mean like the crazy thing with the—so like if you wind it, the mouth opens up, and it's—it's wild!

I mean it’s really—it’s an acquired taste for collectors. It’s been well received; it's a funky chicken watch.

That won't make it onto television for obvious reasons—not for me anyway, since wardrobe set designers are not going to allow the piece to steal the show!

Yeah!

And that piece is so outrageous; it’s going to steal the show, which is what it was designed for!

Yeah, you're going to walk in a room with that on; everybody's going to come over and ask you about it!

And that’s why it’s designed that way, but that is not what television is about!

I mean, I can see them, like, making this all red, and it would work, even if it's just in your personal collection!

It would! And it would look great in red—it really would!

And this is a little bit funky—a JLC Master Compressor!

Yeah, so the issue about that piece is the size of it—big!

It is big!

These super-sized, as I like to call them! Manura has this issue too!

Yeah! You know, it's sort of again a spectacular dial and a very, very beautiful piece!

But in the auction market, I would say that it’s going to be challenged because of its size!

Yeah!

Although it does look good!

Yeah, you know, it’s got great elements of sport, but it’s also—there’s nothing wrong with that! I think it’s a GMT and a chronograph in there, so for me, JLC is one of the more underrated watchmakers in terms of their movements and what they do!

I would agree with that! But again, you’re going to limit the market with the size of this!

Because you get—you get people now, women have stepped into all kinds of men's calibers as a result of sort of middle of the road!

So that’s all the watches that we have here! I want to thank you for taking your time to show me your collection and look at a little bit of love!

Love the Lange; those are great!

Well, thank you everyone! And thank you, Kevin, for joining us! If you have any questions, put them in the comments below and comment with your favorite watch that you saw!

I’m Craig for R Enthusiast, and thank you for watching!