Joe Rogan Experience #714 - John Wayne Parr

Yes, that's my old DE Brody Stevens. What's up, brother? How are you? Great to see you, mate. I can't believe I'm here again. This is awesome! I can't believe you're here again too! I can't believe five days ago you were in a world title fight. Look at you; you look great!

Yeah, I was, um, straight after the fight I had to go to hospital. I spent about four hours in hospital. I thought I broke my foot, but, uh, luckily all the x-rays came back clear. The swelling's going down a lot now, so at one stage I didn't think I was going to be able to fight December the 5th, but it looks like I'm on now with, um, Sorus.

Oh wow, okay! So did you kick an elbow or something? Do you know?

I kicked knees. I think I was KCK'ing his knees about half a dozen times, and then, um, I didn't hurt because my face was so, um, jacked up from all the cuts. Then it wasn't until I was getting stitched up that I noticed my foot was starting to go elephant ti. And then, once the stitch was done, I sidebo came to the change room to get a photo with me. As I stood up to get a photo with her, then I realized the pain was rushing to my foot. I was like, "Okay, I think my foot's broken." So straight... well, luckily, there's an ambulance there. We got straight into the emergency, and then, um, yeah, I was got onto the, uh, the T Killers which, into a different dimension.

What did they give you?

Stuff I don't know. That's, um, different names here in America to Australia.

Oh okay, like oxycodones or something along those lines?

It was trading with an injection.

Oh probably morphine, the good stuff.

This pink elephant came into the room and started chatting to me saying, "Hey, I don't think... I don't think that your foot's not broken, but, uh, you are in a different, uh, galaxy now, so welcome." It was pretty cool!

Was it really a pink elephant, or were you just [ __ ] around?

Could be possibly [ __ ] around.

So you've had 300... and how many stitches in your 15?

Now, 315. 315! Now I broke... I broke, uh, 300 about four weeks before I got to America with an accident in the gym sparring, and I thought, "Okay, 300, you beauty!" And then, Cosmo was polite enough to give me another, uh, two cuts with another 15 stitches.

So now I thought my plateau was 300. So now my next goal is, I guess, is 400, because I've already passed the 35.

My goodness! Who's got the most stitches on their face ever in Muay Thai?

Oh mate, that's a good question. I reckon I have to be close.

You've got to be up there, I'd have to be.

But I'm starting to... now my doctor, he said, uh, because I bring my own doctor with me when I come to fight everywhere around the world, and he said it's just scars breeding on scars now. I've got the nick. The ass sort of eyebrows. So this one's had at least maybe 80 in it alone. This left eye, 80.

80? Well, that's the main, 'cause that's the right elbow coming down.

So, um... well, that's the knock on Muay Thai as opposed to Glory, which unfortunately they just lost their deal with Spike TV, or canceled their agreement with Spike TV. I don't know what happens, but they pulled Glory off Spike, which is really very disappointing for me as a fan of, uh, kickboxing. I was just hoping that that would translate into, um, you know, people getting a more, more understanding in this country of high-level kickboxing.

Yeah, you know, um, I was lucky. Um, Glory was the one, and then you had the Lion fight, so I reached out to Scott Kent with the Lion fight and I said, "Oh mate, is there any chance you can put me on?" I seen how much exposure they were having with Access TV and, uh, with their deal with everyone in the world is paying attention to the Lion fight right now. Because it's pure Muay Thai as well, I thought, um, this is definitely the show to try and be on to raise the profile. So, um, I jumped on board, and then, uh, I'm so devastated that I lost. It was such a tough fight. But at the same time, even though I'm lost and I'm sad, I knew that I gave 100%, um, and hopefully the crowd was entertained enough to hopefully invite me back, and hopefully Scott was happy with my performance. It was a great fun fight.

But what I was going to say is that Glory doesn't have elbows, and that the thing that people worry about with the Lion fight and pure Muay Thai is that there's a lot of cuts and a lot of people get cut. Prim get cut by elbows.

Yes, but you know, the way I look at it is like that is a... it's an excellent weapon. And if you should be able to kick or if you're able to kick and you're able to knee to the face and you're able to do all the things that you can in MMA, why can't you elbow in Muay Thai? You know? And why can't you clinch? You know?

Exactly! The same as MMA: how can you take away the rules and water it down into one sort of category and then call...

Yeah, I think it's hard—the same deal when Naan Cor came over here. He's the elbow master, and then when he came over here to fight for Glory, um, he got beaten by Spong. He got beaten by Saki, and everyone was saying, "Well, but if he had his elbows, that would have changed the fight." Maybe—who knows? You'll never know, but you certainly... it makes you think. When you're thinking, that's bad in the cage or in the ring or wherever you're competing. The idea is to train so hard and train exactly how you're going to fight so that it all comes out automatically.

And when your automatic instinct for Nathan— I mean, how many fights has he had?

Uh, I think close to 70.

Yeah, I mean, think about all those fights that he had throwing elbows, think about all those training sessions throwing elbows, and then all of a sudden he's in positions where he's like, "Okay, don't throw an elbow," because that's normal. You're getting in the clinch, and it just... it just becomes normal for you.

Yes, and then all of a sudden they tell you you can't do it. I mean, it's problematic. I mean, it's nice for these guys to be able to have another outlet. You know, I know Tyron Spong is doing some boxing now, just some straight boxing, which I think probably at least has shoes on, so he'll be just thinking that he's, you know, like, it'll help him not throw kicks and not thinking he can throw elbows and things. But the guys who are the best and the guys who are the best at that particular style of Muay Thai, it'd be great to see them use all their weapons. It'd be great to see them utilize all the techniques of Muay Thai. You see how technical Muay Thai is, you know? I don't think people from the outside that are watching it appreciate it for what it really is— it's incredibly intense and technical martial art.

Yeah, well, Taland's how many hundred years old? So it's already perfected to the rule set. And then everyone's trying to water it down to make it their own specific sort of rule set, but it's not the authentic. When you keep it as it is, the product's already there. You don't have to change it; it's already been perfect enough and fast. And so it's a shame that different organizations are trying to... but I suppose people don't like the clinch as much. Sometimes they think it's getting a little bit boring, and plus when you get two guys that aren't at a certain level, it does seem a little bit sort of dull. It's not entertaining at the early levels, but so does grappling at a very low level. So does a lot of things at a low level.

But I don't think you should ever sort of make rules that are dictated just to make people at a low level fight in a more fan-friendly, enjoyable way. I think you should just allow the people that are watching it to see the difference between a novice and someone who's an expert and see someone who uses the clinch to their advantage and see all the different techniques that can be landed from the clinch—the uses of the knees, the elbows from the break. You know there's a lot of beautiful techniques that can be used from the clinch that you don't see because what Glory has done is sort of adopt the rules of K1, which the Japanese had kind of decided, "Hey, there's got to be a way to make these guys fight in a more exciting and fast-paced way. Let's make the rounds, you know? Just let's, uh, let's make the fight shorter instead of having like many rounds, like 10 rounds or 12 rounds or something like that like a boxing match. Let's just do like three rounds and have them go [ __ ] crazy for three rounds." You know.

Yeah, when I fought in Europe, that was... I fought in an organization called Super League back in 2003-2004, and that was the same deal. Again, we're not going to spend airfare money flying all the way from Australia and get cut in the first round, have the fight stopped 60 seconds in. Otherwise, it's a waste of money for us. So we'll keep the knees, we'll keep everything else but we'll just eliminate elbows just in case that that does happen.

Does Lion fight do drug testing?

Uh, there was no urine test after the... nothing? No?

Wow, so and then I think they were in Vegas and, uh, now they've moved to, um, Tula. And then, um, I think they're on the other side as well. I forget the other place they're at, but, um, no, there was no one waiting for it.

Now is Tula the... it's a casino, right? You guys read a casino, Pachanga? Is that what it is? And is that a Native American reservation where they can do whatever they want? They have their own regulations?

Yes, you know, they kept martial arts alive, mixed martial arts alive in California, okay? The Native American reservations did because they put on King of the Cage in Native American reservations when you couldn't have MMA in California. It was illegal, okay? And so we used to drive out to the middle of nowhere to these very small Native American casinos, and, uh, that's where the King of the Cage would be. And that was like the primary way that, that's how like Uriah Faber got started, a lot of Quentin Jackson got started, a lot of guys got started in King of the Cage and in California because of this loophole that allows Native American reservations to put on the fights. But boy, I would like it if they drug tested guys!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd definitely feel a lot safer if I knew I wasn't fighting, uh, pure animals, just dude juiced to the tits.

Well, Cosmo Alexander is a big fellow, and, um, he's quite a bit larger than you.

The guy that you fought was, uh, he's, um, about 6'3". When they announced him, they said 6'1", but there's no way 6'1", when I was looking up at him when the referee brought us together, it was like looking at, uh, Michael Jordan or something. I was like, "Holy [ __ ]!" And then, uh, once the fight started too, just trying to bridge that gap to get into his range, it was either as you explode into try and land your combinations, those knees are flying past past your head left and right. It's, uh, yeah, it just makes it so much harder when they're so big.

And, um, the funny thing is he can make... I think 70 is 155. He can cut all the way down.

What?

Yeah, um, his last fight before he fought me was 71 kilos, and I know before that, he's fought at 70. And, um, Ben, he's not a skinny 70 either. Once he feels right out after a way, he's, um, he's still got the muscles and he still looks like a V, so he's, um, yeah. And to his credit, I beat him back in 2008, and, um, he's just improved leaps and bounds. The way that he fought me on Friday night, he fought really well. He used his range, he used, um, good power. His power was so crazy, everything he hit me with was, um, loaded. So yeah, full, full credit to him. I tried my best, um, but yeah, he was just, um, on his game.

Yeah, he looked very, very sharp. There were some great moments in that fight. It's really interesting, man. You have a way of moving, a very, uh, very specific way of moving inside the Octagon or inside the ring, rather. If I watched you like a silhouette, if someone showed me a silhouette of you moving, I'd go, "Oh, that's John Wayne Parr." Like, I could totally tell. It's so interesting. You have your own very specific style of, uh, moving. And I would imagine that that style is, like, I mean, you do a lot of things that other Muay Thai guys do. Like, you're very light on the front foot, but there's a way you have of throwing punches and combinations and so heavy off that front left leg that is very specific to you, you know.

And I think that for a lot of guys that's got to present them... you're, um, it's very effective, but it's unique, you know? And like in your style of movement, it's like I can't think of another guy. Like if I watch certain guys, I go, "Oh, well, that guy fights like this guy," or he kind of moves a little bit like him, or Thiago Alves is sort of like that guy or, you know, you can kind of do that with a lot of fighters, but not with you. You got this weird sort of unusual timing, you know, especially that left leg, man. You're like one of the best guys I've ever seen at that front left leg counter, like to the body when a guy's throwing a punch.

Yeah, no, thank you. Um, yeah, all that time spending in Thailand, that was one of their main things telling me it's so hard to block of the back leg, um, 'cause that lead leg is so light. And the majority of the time, 90% of the people are throwing leg kicks, so you got that lead leg ready, but when it's time to throw the left, um, it's really hard to block. So I've perfected that left on the pads. I'm throwing that 70% of the time, and my right leg's my power leg; my left leg is my counter. So I'm throwing that more than anything.

And then, uh, I started off with a really strong right leg, and my left leg was okay, and I just worked at it, worked at it, worked at it to make it my main weapon. And now, um, it's like a jab for a boxer. It becomes their main weapon, yeah. And then someone, as soon as someone comes in, strike, I throw that left leg, and it's not only... not am I trying to score, but I'm using it as a break to try and stop you from throwing your combinations. Also, if I don't land on your ribs, I'm hitting your arms, I'm pushing you off balance so you can't throw the right hand or I want to try and break that right hand down, so that's taking the power away from your right punch, and you're putting weight into it too, and landing with the shin, which also keeps the knee and the thigh bone from you to them. It creates a space and has a lot of power to it.

Yes, you use that so effectively, man. And I should have used it more too because in the after-fight speech Cosmo was saying, "Oh, he was hurting me with that left leg." And then, oh, he said to the body, right? He said that on the after-fight and I was like, "Ah, damn it! I should have used it more."

But there's a couple of unique moments in that fight. One of them was in the third round when you, uh, you just opened up with this crazy flurry. Yes! Like, what was going on there? Did you just have this feeling? Did you just say, "I'm just going to put a barrage on this [ __ ] and see what happens?"

Yeah, my theory is if I can get someone covering up, then I'm not going to stop. So if the opportunity comes in, it might take me 30 punches, it might take me 50 punches, but eventually if I can find that gap and I hit you hard enough, I know I can drop you. So I was just trying my hardest to try and land that big one to try and put him down. And I knew that I've done enough work in the gym to throw all night and my gas tank was full. There was no way I was going to gas, so I just kept throwing, throwing, throwing, thinking, "Come on, just land that good one to just give him himself an 8 count to get himself back into the game." But, um, yeah, he... I think he wore 30ish and then, um, he got out of the corner and then shrugged it off. It's like, "Damn it, now I'm screwed!"

Well, you know, it's funny because you see a guy blocking punches and covering up. But, uh, guys get knocked out through gloves all the time.

Yes! Yes! Especially with kicks, right? And then it's, um, I'm also trying to get in your head as well to make you, uh... trying, yeah, trying to break you down, thinking, "This guy's a machine! How can I stop him?" Um, yeah, but unfortunately it didn't work. Cosmo was good; he was very good.

Yeah, there's another unique moment in the fourth round. You rocked him with a right hand, and then he started like cleaning the bottom of his feet.

Yes! Yes! He was hurt! He was hurt! He was like, "Oh, something on my foot! Like, [ __ ]! You just got rocked!" I first thought he lost his mouthpiece, no? And then, and then as I seen him sort of... I've gone to jump in and whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! And then I thought he lost his contact! I don't know what was going on, but it was a fool like, "No, no, no, you're wrong! I'm right! Just a second!" And then, and then, then it's like, "Oh no, he was [ __ ]!" I should have jumped on him, but, um, he played a little mind game there. It was an effective veteran move. It's like, "Stop, stop, stop! Wait, wait, wait! No, yeah, okay, I'm good!" Then I got an opportunity, and you tried to move in, and the referee got him between— the referee did—the referee [ __ ] up! He didn't know what was going on either! He got hustled as well.

Yeah, so credit to him. He pulled that move.

Yeah, that could have been my shot!

Well, you could tell too because after that he wasn't the same, and then in the fourth round or the fifth round, rather, you came on strong in the fifth round. The fifth round was all you, 'cause I think you hurt him bad in that fourth round. I think you stung him. That's the only reason why a guy would ever do like a con move like that, like hold on, man, I got to clean the bottom of my feet. Like, the [ __ ] are you talking about? You don't get to clean the bottom of your feet; the guy stops. There's no timeouts in kickboxing!

It was very strange and then, uh, we were chatting afterwards, and you came into the change room, and we had our chat. Um, and then he goes, "Oh man, you wouldn't believe it, the very last punch you threw, you broke my nose! Now I can't breathe!" So, as I've gone into the hospital, into the emergency, he was in in one of the other rooms getting his nose put back in together.

So, well, you could see his nose leaking when he was talking to Pat. Militz, his nose was leaking. But, uh, he's a tough guy, and it seems like a really, really nice guy too. And we've fought each other three times now, and then we've also fought on the same cards here in Jamaica and Australia and a few other places. And, um, nicest [ __ ] he's, uh, just the most genuine. And then even when we got put together for this fight, we were messaging each other privately on Facebook and just talking about different things. So there's no animosity; it's just business, right? He's got to get paid, I got to get paid, we beat each other up, and then at the end of it, again, we go into each other's change room, we high five, good fight, thank you very much.

You know, that's interesting because that's a big part of fighting is the camaraderie between fighters, but also a big part of fighting is the mental game, when there is no camaraderie, when guys are [ __ ] with each other, and it becomes emotional. And there's a lot of fighters that have been tripped up by emotions, like, uh, Donald Cerrone was on the podcast; we were talking about his fight with Nate Diaz. And Nate Diaz talked all kinds of crazy [ __ ] to him, knocked his cowboy hat off, you know, called him every [ __ ] name in the book. And then when they fought, Donald was all [ __ ] up emotionally. He was so emotionally invested in beating this guy's ass and not losing to this guy that he just couldn't perform at his best. Just was so tied up. And Conor McGregor, he does that to everybody. He talks with you so hard. By the time you get in there, you don't even know who you are; he's got you convinced you're a totally different person. You would just want to kill him, and then you can't even hit them! It's like, it's such a mind [ __ ] when you wind up hating someone!

So in that sense, it's got to be a pleasure when you meet a gentleman like Cosmo Alexander, who's a great fighter as well, and you don't have to think about all that jazz. You can just be yourself.

Yeah, no, I'm very lucky. With the sport, I haven't had any Conor McGregor's or Nick Diaz's in, uh, that I've ever— in all your fights? Uh, there was one time I was on a television show called The Contender, and then there was a French gentleman that was sort of getting under everyone's skin. And he was, uh, talking a lot of smack. But at the same time, yeah...

What was that guy's name?

Uh, Rafiq?

Yeah, Rafiq. He, um, and then everyone was coming up to me saying, "You got to knock this [ __ ] out! You got to knock this [ __ ] out!" And then even the film crew were coming behind the scenes saying, "Oh, you got to knock this [ __ ] out! You got to get this guy off this show!", 'cause soon as you on our show as soon as you lost, you went home.

Uh, so I put a lot of pressure on myself there, and again, the harder you try and knock someone out, the less it happens, and then the more mentally drained you get too, 'cause why haven't I knocked him out yet? Instead of thinking, "Okay, just do the business," and if something lands, then it goes down. But the harder you try, the less it happens; then the more frustrated you get, then the more tired you get because you're mentally drained. So, uh, yeah, it's a tough gig; it's that way with everything, man. It's that way with everything. As soon as you get emotionally invested in something like that, you're dealing with that other thing, which is even bigger and more central to your thoughts than your actual task at hand you're dealing with, like this talk jazz, blah blah blah. Which is, you're going to fight. I mean, you're going to, you're going to engage in the most intense form of competition ever, and you're concentrating on this [ __ ] like talking [ __ ]! Like, what difference does it make? What we say if we're going to fight?

Well, the difference is if you can [ __ ] with a guy's emotions, he can't fight good!

It's crazy. Uh, on the, at the way with Cosmo, uh, at the airport, I bought myself a little boomerang souvenir, and then I presented that to Cosmo at the weigh-in. And then we hugged and shook hands and took a photo with the boomerang, and it was just a gentleman gesture. It's like, "Oh, well, at least you're going to remember me." But then you look at the UFC, and then you get Dana White standing in the middle, and they're holding guys back. It's like, "Well, 24 hours time you're going to punch each other in the face anyway." So why all this acting? It's not... and then same with, um, Conor McGregor and Aldo—every time they get together, it's like, "Well, you technically can't really do it now; you're both going to get in a lot of trouble, or you're going to get fined by either the commission or Dana or UFC or..." So just can't you just be... I know it sells tickets too. I know it's riveting. It's so... you can't... you can't not watch it; you can't not tune into the websites and the replays, but, uh, yeah, I suppose being a gentleman sometimes can be boring compared... compared to when you look at it like that it's kind of a catch 22, right? I mean, God, people pay attention to you. It becomes this huge media selling point; it's the story.

And look, the Jon Jones-Daniel Cormier fight... I think, I do believe that Jon Jones is the best light heavyweight on the planet, and I think he beat Daniel Cormier because he's incredibly skillful and because he's just so good, but I also believe that Daniel Cormier was [ __ ] up going into that fight emotionally 'cause Jon had talked so much [ __ ] to him. They got in a fight at the weigh-ins where they, like, literally were throwing punches at each other, and they had to be separated; it was a giant brawl. It wasn't a weigh-in, rather, it was a press conference, giant brawl at the press conference, knocking people over, throwing shoes at each other. It was madness! But Jon can handle that stuff better than Daniel can—like Jon can still perform at the same level under those circumstances, and I don't think Daniel did.

Yep, yep, yeah, no, that was insane. That was crazy.

Well, that's just Conor too. I mean, part of what Conor's doing is [ __ ] with people. Like, that's what Muhammad Ali did to Sonny Liston. When Muhammad Ali first fought Sonny Liston, they... he was screaming and yelling at him so bad at the weigh-ins that they weren't going to let him fight. They thought there was something wrong with him because his heart rate was so crazy and his blood pressure was so high, they were worried that this guy's not fit to fight.

And then he calmed down. He was like, "Just relax. Go ahead! I'm—I know what I'm [ __ ] doing. I’m just [ __ ] with this dude." And it turned out that he knew that Sonny Liston, although he's terrifying and this massive hard puncher and knocked everybody dead, he was scared of crazy people!

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

And that's what Muhammad Ali did. He just acted like a [ __ ] crazy person. He used to drive to Sonny Liston's house. He'd park his car on Sonny Liston's lawn and yell out at him in the middle of the night, just yell at him, "Get up, Sonny! I'm gonna kick your [ __ ] ass, Sonny!" He would say all kinds of crazy [ __ ] on his [ __ ] lawn while the guy's trying to sleep!

He's doing the, um, Shannon Briggs.

Well, what Shannon Briggs does now?

Yeah, Shannon Briggs is hilarious, isn't he? "Let go, champ!" Do you pay attention to his Instagram?

Amazing!

I was for a while, but then it's, it's on loop. It's pretty much every single video you watch is exactly the same, whereas Ali had a bit of class about it.

Oh, same as Conor; Conor is a genius as well.

Oh, yeah! The break out the red panties! Like, that's, um, that's gold!

That was pretty cool, yeah! "Break out the red panties! Yeah, if you're fighting me, break out the red panties, honey! We made it!"

Yeah, no, he's a genius. Conor is the best [ __ ] talker ever!

How even think of that? You're lying in bed, laying on your [ __ ] thing, you know what, yeah, what color panties do my missus wear when we... the red ones! The red ones are probably the best ones!

I don't even think he's thinking it; I think that's just him! I think he just, uh, he's just free and just thinks, just thinks that way, you know, he's just an amazing [ __ ] talker. He's so good at it!

Yeah, um, I talked to H a fair bit between, um, the last couple of days, and he reckons he's such a good guy!

He re... yeah, yeah! H said, um, when you talk to him one-on-one, he said he's just the nicest, politest gentleman you'll ever meet. And then you put him in front of a stage, especially in front of those crowds that they're pulling at the Ws and press conferences, and then he just, he just shines and just becomes this different animal, which is a marketing genius at the same time too. They're just a brilliant entrepreneur that's going to be set up for life.

And he wasn't like that earlier in his career, you know. He became like that really when he got to the UFC. I mean, he had a hair of that before. He had a little bit of that before where he was confident. He would talk well, and I've been following Conor for years. I tweeted him a long time ago, like, uh, several years ago, back when he was, uh, fighting in England, I believe it was. I think it was England, I'm not sure, fighting at some overseas organization. I watched it on YouTube, and I was like, "This guy's [ __ ] talented!"

He's talented! He's got a clean left hand too! His left-hand power punch—that's a [ __ ] good night, Irene punch, man. From the southpaw.

Yeah, he's so good at measuring guys too. Very good at measuring. He has a very off-speed movement. His movement is unusual; it's very difficult to time. That's one of the things I was thinking about when I was watching you fight, unusual movement. You know, it's a very, very, very difficult thing for guys to deal with. Like a lot of fighters would tell you that sparring with a person who has a very traditional style is almost like comforting sometimes, but you spar with a guy who might not even be as skillful but is doing things all wrong but has a lot of power, like... does things like real weird like, um, the guy who just fought Sugar Shane Mosley, that crazy guy who smokes cigarettes from Nicaragua, yeah!

Ricardo Mayorga.

Ricardo Mayorga is a perfect example! When he used to fight, uh, the late great Vernon Forest, he beat that dude because Forest couldn't deal with his weird, crazy punches coming from everywhere! It was madness! Those punches were coming from, like, behind his calf and over the top and hit you on the nose! Like, what the [ __ ]? Like, everything was winking and wild and with murderous intentions, and so it was so street, you know? It was not like skillful; it was not like fighting like a Roberto Duran, who was like incredibly skillful but also like raw too, you know? With Ricardo Mayorga, everything was awkward. It's like you didn't know what the [ __ ]! You couldn't get into this rhythm. Like you see like two very skillful boxers fight, you know? You see they're looking for openings; they're probing, but you see like a common rhythm or a rhythm that you've seen before. You know, it's a conventional way of moving. Same in Bangkok; you watch two professional ties, and they train identical. So when you put them against each other, now you're watching a chess game.

And then you chuck in your Raymond Deckers or, or, or, luckily for myself, um, you throw in that the hands because they weren't really boxing back then. And all of a sudden you've thrown out the rhythm because they're not—all of a sudden they’re like, "What the hell's going on here?!"

Yeah, yeah. Ramon Deckers used to do everything hard—everything hard! Every [ __ ] punch was murder; every kick was murder. Yes, but see the difference between you and him was that you've fought smart enough to get to 39 years old and still can World title fights. Yes, whereas by the time he was in his late 30s, his body had just been destroyed. He destroyed his ankles! Like they say that by the time he had his last few fights, like his ankles were so bad that his doctors told him if you break your ankle again, we might have to amputate your foot.

Yeah, yeah! And so he switched his stance! He started kicking with his other leg! But then the fight would get heated up, and he'd go, "[ __ ] it!" And he would go right back and throw that same kick over and over again and just slam the guy's arms, slam to their knees, slam to their shins.

Yeah, he's a G; he's a king! I said that last time too! He's still a king! I think he's amazing, man! Half pound—the greatest ever! He was the man! He's someone I'm trying to implement still, and I said that last time too. And, um, yeah, my whole—every single time I have a fight, I'm trying to emulate, trying to walk in his footsteps to become the next him.

So now how have you gotten to 39 years of age? I mean, with all your cuts and all that stuff, but you don't have any injuries that have stopped you from competing at the world-class level?

Just, uh, luck! I've been so fortunate to have good genetics. And I still have the passion. I still wake up every morning at 5:30. I'm on the road at 6:30. I'm still running 12Ks. I'm still hitting the pads just as hard. I'm still doing massive rounds. For this last prep, Bo, I was running 100 km a week; I ran for 10 weeks. I worked out; I ran 1,000 km for this camp. So that's morning and night together!

What is that in American?

Uh, 600 miles!

So 600 miles for over 10 weeks? That's a lot of [ __ ] miles, dude!

Um, nine rounds on the pads, sounds better when you say a thousand, though.

Yeah, yeah, sounds better! I should go to meters. Um, uh, but nine rounds on the pads, I was doing two boxing, five tie, uh, two or three leg shields. Wow!

Uh, and then I'm still running with the young kids; I'm still sparring the young guys in Australia! I got a couple of young gentlemen, Jake Lon, Elliot Compton to come to the on Sundays. Um, they're in their early 20s. I'm still holding my own with them, and they're like the best prospects Australia has, and I'm not losing!

So do you think that that's because of your passion? Do you think that's because of your enthusiasm? That you truly love Muay Thai, and I know you do! I mean, it's to you, it's just like—it's so exciting and invigorating and fulfilling. And do you think that that's what happens to fighters?

Um, first, the waning enthusiasm even before the body starts to fail?

I'm not sure. My, no, because I've had other students that I've—because I run the gym. I've had guys that have had 30, 40 fights that are world beaters, but their shoulder pops or their knee goes or their ankle goes, and then it's not— they have to retire. It's not a case they want to; they have to. Where I've been so fortunate that my knees are intact; my shoulders are good. My, I've had a few problems with my hands, but nothing really to stop me.

Um, I'm just surgeries with your hands at all?

No, no, nothing. I have no surgeries. I've just had stitches— just lots and lots and lots and lots of SES! But, um, besides that, I'm just so blessed that, um, yeah, no. And then, besides good genetics and the passion, that's, um, I just—I just want to—my life from the time I was four years old, all I wanted to be was a martial artist, and now I'm getting older, and I know that my time is coming. I don't want to stop; I want to ride the wave all the way until I pass, but I know I can't, but I want to. If I had my way, I'd fight to the very day that I go to my grave.

Do you? Are you more careful now that you're 39 years old? Are you more careful now about your diet, about rehabilitation, about those kind of things?

I'm more aware about losing weight before a fight. Before, I was trying to do it the hard way! I was trying to lose 10 kilos in three, four days! Now I'm doing it over a 10-week period, so I'm only losing those last few kilos in the two days prior to the weight, the weighing.

Do you think that though when you're fighting a really big guy like Cosmo Alexander, who most likely lost a [ __ ] load of water weight the day before the fight and then rehydrated, which is legal in Muay Thai, still not legal in MMA anymore—at least in the UFC. Do you think that it's a detriment to you though?

This one, I went up a weight division also! I usually fight at middle—well, still the boxing weight—the boxing weight division—this was 168 or 167. So, because I was flying to America, I didn't want to stab myself on the plane! I didn't want to get here, and I didn't want to have to put the sweat on. I didn't want to sa, so I only had to lose 2 kilos.

So nothing! So come weighing time, I felt comfortable, but then come fight time, the size difference was like, "Oh my God!" It was different, but it's interesting that you were the one who was coming on in the fourth and fifth round, you know?

My fitness? I TR—I wanted it! This is... I can't remember how long it's been since I've wanted the world title so bad. I've been very fortunate enough to win 10, but I wanted this one because like I, like I was saying last time I was here, I want to try and reach... I've been lucky enough to be famous in Australia and be famous in Thailand and make my name in Japan, but America is like the last frontier where I haven't really sort of excelled or... or I want to. I wanted that title to say, "America, this is me!" Right? And then, um, and then I lost. It's like, "Ah!" But I hope I put on an entertaining fight enough that definitely did! You definitely did!

How many titles does Lion fight have? How many divisions?

Uh, do they have a 160?

Uh, 160, yes, I believe! Y, Sing GL holds that. Oh, no, it was that other young Thai kid that I forgot his name—Joat, possibly?

I think that's... yes, he's one of the stars in Lion fight. I think I personally think that Lion fight has some of the best skilled kickboxers in the world today. I really enjoy watching those shows! I mean, they especially—they'll bring in some ties that are just murderous. The level of Muay Thai that they show—like, you get to see this beautiful execution of... of the style! Jina that just fought on the S main from Holland, she's amazing!

She was, and then that her fight against Cyborg! I didn't hear about her until she fought Cyborg, and then I was really intrigued to see how Cyborg would fight against in pure Muay Thai rules. And then, um, the Dutch girl came, and who is this? And then it's like, "Whoa! She's a beast!" There... there's the difference of pure Muay Thai against pure MMA. It was just—it was beautiful to watch!

Jorina Badr is her name, and she's, uh, tall and long. You know, Dutch people are among some of the tallest Europeans. Their average height is six feet tall. They're very big people, you know? And, um, Jorina is like probably one of the most technical women in the world when it comes to Muay Thai! And that you got to see that in that fight with Cyar. When she push kicked her in the face and knocked her down, I mean, she's a beast, man! She's a beast!

Do you believe it has anything to do with the nutrients that are in pancakes?

Pancakes? D pancakes? Don't the Dutch people like pancakes? And you smok and pig. I don't know. Do I? I don't know. I don't think so. I think it's probably hearty people, you know—hardy. It gets cold as [ __ ], you know—the strong survived. It's like Vikings—why are they so [ __ ] big? Like those people in Iceland that always win those strongest man competitions? Why is that? Why are all these Iceland guys winning, but when you see them, you go, "Oh, yeah, I get it! It's a [ __ ] Viking; that's a Viking that made it to 2015 with some Viking genes!" They got nothing else to do besides pick up big boulders and put them 100 meters down the road.

But it's interesting what you said about Jorina when she fought Cyborg, because I'll tell you what, you know, I was super impressed with her technique and super impressed with her skill level, but I was impressed with Cyborg's grit and determination because she was getting her [ __ ] ass kicked and she hung in there and she kept trying to win that fight! She kept chasing that girl down, and she was getting beat. She was getting beat and she was losing, and she was technically outmatched! You know?

I think there's a difference in someone who's really good at hitting things hard and someone who's really good at Muay Thai, and someone who's really good at setting things up. You know, and I think that what she can do better than Cyborg is set things up technically, you know? And it's not Cyborg can't learn that; she certainly can. But when you see someone who's used to, like, takedowns and submissions and dealing with little gloves and dealing with fighting people that are nowhere near her technical level... that was, without a doubt, the best striker Cyborg's ever faced because she's been fighting girls that literally there's been assaults! You know? You've seen a lot, like the toughest girl she ever fought was Gina Carano.

Yes! And, you know, she—that was a good fight! It was a good fight up until Cyborg started beating her down, but the level of Muay Thai, like in something like Lion Fight, like the girl who fought Jorina this past weekend—she's very good from Czech.

Yes! Yeah, from the Czech Republic. All apologies, I forget her name, but she was very good as well! Very tough! But that was a pleasure to watch that fight because those girls were very technical, you know? And what Jorina brought to the table with the Cyborg fight was a lot of front kicks to the face, which I don't think MMA people use as effectively because they can't use it because of catches and the takedowns—and also the straight-up knees because Jorina is so tall.

What a normal person would throw to the body she can throw to the face no problem whatsoever! So all of a sudden you have those two different elements coming at you, and then uh, that's what kept landing over and over! They kept dropping her, especially when she was holding the ropes and teed in the corner, and Cyborg was rushing in to try and knock her out and running straight into those front kicks.

So yeah, she throws it to the body well too! She did that in this fight too, that she throws that front kick to the body real well, and follows it up with nice straight punches, and she's so long she keeps you at the end of her punches!

Yeah, I mean, I get frustrated when I see that Muay Thai is not more popular in the United States! I really do, you know? And I know I'm not the only one because the big thing that everybody always says about MMA, which of course I disagree with because I have a background in Jiu-Jitsu, but that when it goes to the ground that it's boring. I don't think it's boring because I understand what's happening, and to me, it's fascinating! I want to see like a guy like Damen MAA when he takes guys down and strangles him. To me, that's beautiful; that's art! I want to, I want to see like how he's setting things up!

You know when he fought Neil Magny in his last fight, I couldn't wait to interview him because he made some adjustments on the ground and took the guy's back. The guy was defending in the first round. I was like, "What adjustment did you make? What? Did you...?" And he was explaining it to me, and I could see the technique and the art in his words. Like to him, it was a problem to be solved. And I see that in Muay Thai too. And I think, um, for um, you know, everybody that like the meatheads that watch MMA, I hate when it goes to the ground.

Well, why don't you like Muay Thai then? Why isn't Muay Thai like the biggest, most popular combat sport in the world? 'Cause it's all stand-up! And if you watch Lion Fight, man, you might see five, six knockouts a night! Like, uh, Dream Killer Balanos—that [ __ ] kid with his spinning elbow KO in his last fight—holy [ __ ] wild stuff, man!

You know, I think also like Access TV is one of those weird stations. Cuban owns it; it's at the end of the dial on Direct TV; you can't [ __ ] find it! You know, I mean, I think that it's one of those things where somehow or another there has to be a consciousness shift where people have to be able to appreciate it, you know? And I don't know what that shift is. I don't know how to make that shift. I don't know what it would be that would cause it to get on some big event on television.

You know, y'son, maybe you and y'son ky again! Again again again. You trying to get me killed. Come on, you beat him.

Well, I was lucky. I was very Australian judges. I was lucky you are! You're too kind! I’d have to say you are.

I think I just needs, um, exposure because what I've realized is, um, like I think I said this last time as well, the UFC are so good at making superstars. And then when you—for instance, um, Glory or Lion Fight, uh, you can say, uh, Tyran Spong is fighting G.K. Saki for instance. Amazing! Nobody knows who they are besides the hardcore Muay Thai guys. But, um, because MMA is so big, uh, everyone knows the Cowboy Cerrone; everyone knows the Georges St-Pierre. So when they fight, you already know their history! You already know this guy is a killer; this guy is going to talk [ __ ]!

This is it, this is it! But, you know what? That's only been the case for ten years!

Yeah, true! In 2005, when Stefan Bonner and Forrest Griffin fought on Spike TV, nobody knew who the [ __ ] those guys were!

Yep! They were fighting so hard that at one point in time, I believe the statistics was the statistic was 10 million people were watching that fight, which for a cable TV fight was [ __ ] insane! And the reason why so many people watched it is they started watching it. It was like three million people or something like that, because it was the finals of Spike TV, and during the fight the numbers went up substantially! They believed if that people were literally calling people up and going, "You got these crazy white [ __ ] beating the [ __ ] out of each other on Spike TV! Go turn this on right now!" And they literally believe it was through word of mouth during the fight that changed MMA history because during that fight, because it was so crazy and so wild, and those guys just put the pedal to the metal and went nuts for the entire fight. And it was—they were so evenly matched!

That after it was over, a sport was made! I mean, a sport was made by one fight! That's not an exaggeration, because to this day, although it was a great performance by Diego Sanchez, nobody talks about Diego Sanchez versus Kenny Florian.

Yep!

Yeah, Diego Sanchez fought Kenny Florian for the 185lb title on that same night, and Diego took Kenny down and beat the [ __ ] out of him, stopped him! But nobody talks about that fight! It was the fight between those two guys, between Forrest Griffin and Stephan Bonner, that literally made MMA! And from then on, the numbers just started going crazy! Like, everybody started tuning in, and it just picked up, and then The Ultimate Fighter took off, and then it picked up more and more and more and more, and then it became a huge sport! But it literally was born out of one event!

Yep! Like that was...

We need something like that for Muay Thai! We need something like that for kickboxing! One big thing where people go, "Holy [ __ ]!"

And if that can happen, I think… and you also need a promoter like Dana White and, you know, owners like the Fertitas. You need some powerful organization that's got balls and money and really gets behind it! And then you need a lot of luck!

Yes! Well, that's it! I don't know how K [ __ ] up because, um, they had everything! They had the, the, the TV; they had the slow motions; they had the highlights; they had the missing fingers; they had the dudes with the bodysuits, the body tattoos.

Yeah, I don't know, man! They were gigantic in Japan! Since then, they've disappeared! It's like, where do we go? Where does the kickboxing go? If I'm a young kid and I'm watching the TV, do I—UFC is the only way to go!

Hey! Do you want to be a Muay Thai fighter? Why?

M I can I can be on a cereal box.

Or now it's gone so far that you can be a legitimate household name whereas in Muay Thai, oh, you might get a few little medals or trophies to put on your your pool room, but yeah, there's no there's no one driving Mercedes-Benz as a Muay Thai fighter. There's not even a $100,000 payday for a Muay Thai guy! If you get 10 grand, you're like, "Yeah, 10 grand!"

Yeah, but I still gotta go to work Monday!

Yeah! So and for women, it's even crazier! I mean, think about the small group of talent—the depth of talent in women's MMA! Like, there's a perfect example! The UFC 115-pound strawweight champion, Yan and Jay is a Muay Thai champion, six-time world Muay Thai champion, and she's just murdering chicks! Just murdering them! She's nasty! She’s business!

She is so nasty! But other than her, you know, you have a bunch of people in her division that are really honestly... there's a few with some experience that are getting better, but they're not world championship level!

Yes! You know, they're just... and if you're a girl who wants to make it in fighting and you look at the pool of talent that's in the UFC right now, in the women's division, especially 115-pound division, you're going to be compelled to try to make it there!

Yep! At 135, you got that murderer, Ronda Rousey, flipping [ __ ] on their heads and [ __ ] snapping arms!

That's a tough one because she's so advanced! You know, she's so advanced that she's just smashing everybody they put in front of her! So that's a tough one because you would have to learn how to grapple at a very high level to even be able to hang in there with her!

And now her striking is getting way better too! So it becomes problematic! But what is the one thing that no one's ever done to Ronda Rousey?

Kick the [ __ ] out of her legs! Strike! Keep her away; stuff the takedown and kick the [ __ ] out of her legs!

We haven't seen that at all! Like, at all! We've seen no... how much would you like to see a world championship level Muay Thai fighter like Yan on J. Who's fighting at 1... A natural 135 who fights Ronda Rousey? Someone who comes out there and you see this, like, super high-level striking game with good takedown defense and sprawls. Now you got to fight! Now you got some crazy [ __ ] happening!

That's what we were supposed to expect with Kat Zingano—that was supposed to happen in February, yeah? But Kat Zingano also, you have to think has never fought in that stage before! That stage itself is just such a mind [ __ ]!

Like, you're standing in that Octagon; the bright lights; the cameras are on you, and you're like, you know, I mean... that's probably half the reason why she made that mad crazy bum rush across the Octagon and just wanted to attack her!

Yeah, yeah!

Um, I heard the same thing from Farz when I was training with George. He says people don't understand that they fight in the prelims, and because George has done it so many times, he's so used to the pressure! But then you get the guys that are fighting George, and then all of a sudden it's five FS! You're in the posters; you're doing all the media, and then you have to walk out in front of that 25,000 people or whatever them gym or..., or how about when he fought in Toronto? Toronto, 60,000! And you're the bad guy, you're in Canada! And then, uh, yeah, the pressure just breaks them before they even walk!

Well, it breaks them probably weeks in advance, and then the day comes, you think you can handle it! And the day comes you just... you implode on the inside!

Or not! Or you're like Jon Jones; you fight Shogun in your first world title fight. You're 24 years old and you beat his ass! Everybody goes, "Holy [ __ ]! Look at this guy!"

I mean, I think Jon was 23, actually, now that I think about it. He was the youngest ever UFC champion, and I believe that Josh Barnett won the UFC heavyweight title when he was 24! So I think I might be off by this. But I think Jon was 23. But that's a special guy, you know? Jon's a special competitor!

And I think that for someone like Kat Zingano, that media pressure is just as much pressure! Having all those people ask you, "What's it like? What's it going to be like when you get in there? How are you going to win? How are you going to beat Rhonda? What are you going to do about her arm bars?" You know? I mean, think about that!

What are you going to do about her arm bar? Oh I'm not worried about that [ __ ] 15 seconds in your arm bar! The only question! The only question!

Yeah! And then you get armed, time that by 10,000 times over a period of three months prep! Yeah, it's a mind [ __ ]!

Yeah, drives you insane! But I think someone like Yan, who is a world champion already, she's so used to competing at an incredibly high level. And then she had to get her bearings in the UFC. She had that one really tough fight with Claudia Gadea where it was neck-and-neck—very, very close fight!

And then from then on, she's gone to just dominate! I think that a woman like that, like if you could find someone like that at 135, it would be very interesting!

Because although Ronda is getting better at striking, you very rarely, if ever, see her throw kicks, it's very rare!

Yes! And for someone who's a good Muay Thai fighter, man, that is... and also R has notoriously had problems with her knees! You know, I think you have to find someone that can fight going backwards as well because as soon as that bell rings, Ronda charges across the cage. Anyone that's silly enough to stand in front of it and think they can strike standing on the spot, they're going to get taken down straight away!

So you're going to have to be mobile, otherwise she's going to grab you and flip you upside down on your head! And inside out! And then you're also going to have to be world class as an athlete!

And I think that she is, but I don't think anybody she's ever fought is—except maybe Sarah. You could say, well, who is, um, not Alexis Davis but—Sarah McMahon?

Who's was that, her name? The Olympic gold medal, the Olympic silver medalist in wrestling?

Yeah, she was obviously an excellent wrestler! You know, so you've got that! She was obviously an excellent wrestler! But as an MMA fighter, she just... there's like some holes in her game, you know?

And she’s not very good off her back either; she gets put on her back and she doesn't do so well. But I think Ronda's she's a winner overall! Like, that's like the most important thing!

Like, that person like the Jon Jones mentality—the person who just knows how to win and is not going to get rattled by the pressures, not going to get rattled by all the hype and all the [ __ ] talk, is going to be able to go in there and perform at their maximum level! Ronda obviously can do that, you know?

And she even said recently, she said, "The more [ __ ] up and crazy her life is, the more [ __ ] up and crazy things are, the better she fights!"

Hey, which is just nuts! Her last fight with, um, Beth—um, that right hand you landed! You've never seen another girl knock out another girl with a single punch like that!

That was insane! Not in MMA, at least! The only time I've ever seen that in, um, in kickboxing...

Well, you know what? Holly Holm has knocked some [ __ ] dead with head kicks!

Head kicks, yes! But a single right hand? That was nasty!

It wasn't like she just a flash knockdown either! She was... she was out!

Oh, she was dead! She was dead! She was hurt already, and then, you know, she tagged her with the right hand, and then as she's going down, Ronda was already throwing the left, you know? And the left landed too as she was... her body was already giving out! Yes!

That was nasty! That was a wake-up call to a lot of people that she's like learning how to strike too! But all due respect, Beth is a brawler! Like her technique is it's not that good!

She throws like kind of arm punches; she's like physically like Bulldog... she's tough and strong, but she's not, you know, she's not moving like Yan, you know what I'm saying?

Like she's not moving like an elite striker; she's throwing barrages of punches, and the pressure for her must have been off the [ __ ] charts in Brazil fighting Ronda Rousey!

Talking so much [ __ ]! And then she [ __ ] up and talked about Ronda’s dad and suicide and all that, and oh, and the Brazilians kind of turned on her for that!

Yeah! And then at the weigh-ins, the Brazilians were cheering Ronda, which never happens! Like that's how much she's transcended! She can go to Brazil and then the Brazilians will cheer her!

I've never seen that in my life! Wait till she hits Australia! She's, um, she's a global phenomenon!

I think once she hits Australia, I think the amount of support she's going to get there is going to be off the charts as well!

Yeah, that's going to be—ah! I just wish Holly had more fights, you know, in the UFC!

I was going to ask her on the side! What do you think about that fight?

And I think, um, a little bit early for poor Holly, but she's, she's an amazing boxer! She's to win so many world titles in boxing, but... and then that head kick's a killer too!

But, well, it's not that I don't think that Holly is capable; what I, you know, one of those things I said is like I don't think that's a smart fight because I want to see her fight some more people!

I want to see her fight Misha Tate! I want to see her fight, you know, uh... fill in the blank! Amanda Nunez!

I want to see her fight some tough girls and put on a show and then, you know, have everybody like clamor for it!

Yeah, I believe you've mentioned Amanda before; she's a terror!

She... but she knocked out Sarah McMahon in her last fight!

She was awesome! She's a beast dude!

Yeah! And you can tell she wants it too! She's not in there to be a statistic; she wants that title bad!

It is Sarah McMahon, right? Am I saying that? Make sure I'm right! I'm almost positive I am! But for whatever reason, I see her face in front of me, and for whatever reason, I... Sarah seems like I [ __ ] up!

I have too many names in my head, man, I really do!

Yeah, it is, right? Thank you! Um, uh, but I think Holly is physically very capable without a doubt and technically very capable without a doubt; she should be the best striker Ronda's ever faced—no question about it!

It's whether or not she can keep the fight standing... she can keep Ronda off her or whether she could deal with the pressure when she goes out there and there's 70,000 [ __ ] people!

That's 10,000 more than we've ever done before! So—and it's already almost sold out, I think! It's crazy! From fighting main events in Albuquerque to come into Australia and fight in front of their biggest football stadium in Melbourne, and to look across the Octagon at that blonde demon coming out to that [ __ ] Joan Jet song!

Jesus Christ! I don't think I've ever heard anyone call her the blonde demon before!

She's a demon, dude! There's no question about it! When you're locked in that thing with her and she goes after those girls, that's a demon, you know?

So, so after we did the podcast in February, I was lucky enough to go to the UFC here in the Staples Center, and then we went to the weigh-in, and it was very cool!

And then, uh... so, so Edmund and Ronda were walking down the driveway to come into the hotel, and as a fanboy, I had my iPhone, I was like, "Oh, should I go ask for a photo? Should I ask for a photo?"

A [ __ ] it—why not? And then then I shimmied over like a little scared little boy and said, "Ah, excuse me, Ronda, if I get a picture?" And she goes, "Oh, sorry, no photos until after the fight!"

And then, um, Edmund had his arm around her, and he looked at me, and then he stopped her, and he goes, "Hey, this is the guy! This is the guy!"

And she's looked at Edmund and going, "Oh, so this is the guy!" And goes, "This is the guy!" So he's pushed her into my arms and said, "Oh, you got to get a photo with him. This is the guy!"

Well, Edmund knows who you are for sure.

Yeah, he was, um, he was amazing! So then we took a photo, and she was—she's amazing! She's such a cool person!

I was so scared! I was so star-struck! And then, um, she was just normal! And then, um, and then afterwards, I come down and got some drinks at the hotel bar there, and Edmund was there, and he made his way over to come and have a chat to me. And then we just talked like we were long-lost friends! He was such a gentleman as well! He was such a nice guy!

A lot of people get a... they have a— for whatever reason, they get—there's a misconception about what he's like, you know? I think part of it is the Armenian thing, you know? Armenians are just so... they're so masculine, you know? And they have this certain way about them that a lot of people, they misread that!

You know, they're just, uh, they're fun people, man! They're very proud, very fun people! I really... I'm a fan of Armenians! I really like them! 'Cause I've seen The Ultimate Fighter too, so I was expecting a certain sort of presence! But then it was just he's a gentleman; he's awesome!

He was so cool! And then, um, and then we just started talking about Muay Thai and fighting! And then, um, actually, my wife used to fight on the same cards as him back in the day when he was competing!

So, um, yeah, we... where did he compete?

Where, did you ever see him compete? Uh, no, they fought on the same cards here in Cali—in Buena Park!

Buena Park! Buena Park... That's when... no, you're [ __ ] fighting him! Just kidding!

The Buena Park, um, he's, uh... he's done some great things with other fighters too! Like, he's really improved Travis Brown's hands! Y'know, he's done some real good work with him!

Like you saw, um, in Travis Brown's fight against Brendan Shaw, you saw some sharp combinations, you know. But then again, he got knocked out by Rovski in the fight afterwards, but that was just great chaos!

But I've heard that like in the gym there's an interesting dynamic between fighters! Like sometimes fights, like when you look at guys on paper, like Travis was ranked number three in the world, and Orlovski wasn't! You know, Orlovski was a guy that everybody thought was at the end of his, you know, his time!

But Arlovski has been a world-class striker for a long time, a former heavyweight champion in the UFC had a nasty power in his punches, you know, nasty right hand! And in the gym, there's no pressure in the gym. He could be himself!

And in the gym, he had been used to bullying Travis around. Apparently, he had been beating Travis up when they had had sparring sessions! That was what the word was! So when they’d gotten into the Octagon together, like for everybody else it was like, "Man, Arlovski’s got a tough fight!" But for him, he was like, "I spar this guy a hundred times; I'm going to go after him!"

And so they went after each other, and at one point, Travis had him down, man—had him down and hurt bad!

And Arlovski came back from that and knocked him out, and like that was one of the craziest rounds in heavyweight history.

Yeah, that was a mad [ __ ] Madness! That was so cool, wild, wild round!

And then Arlovski goes and fights a Mia, and I was expecting the same Arlovski to rock up and same— I was expecting the same, expecting the same fireworks!

And unfortunately, it was a little bit of— um, not quite the same enthusiasm in that one!

I think in that fight, I think one of the things that happens in really high-pressure fights, and I think this correlates with what we were talking earlier about pressure and about, like, you know, we were talking about guys that put too much pressure on themselves from [ __ ] talking and get too much emotionally wrapped up in it.

When a fight is a fight where they say, "The winner is going to be the number one contender and will next fight for the title!’ those fights suck at least 50% of the time! Because at least 50% of the time, everybody locks up and nobody wants to do anything stupid because a win virtually guarantees you a shot at the title!

But the fight wasn't good, because neither guy pulled the trigger. And it was like it was very lackluster. It's like both guys were hesitant, and even Arlovski, even though he won the fight, when I was interviewing him, he wasn't happy!

Yeah, he was devastated! He just... crazy! He won! He won!

He thought he was going to have the next shot of the title, but then, you know, then the fight was bad!

So that's one of the weird things about the UFC that people don't like is that there isn't any like clear structure!

Like when Misha Tate won, she was virtually guaranteed a shot at the title! Beat Jessica Eye, you got a shot at the title. She beats Jess Eye, and it's like, "Listen, surprise! You're not ready for that!"

Like, what? So she’s actually—she made some interview recently where she said that she should probably think about what she's going to do when she retires!

And I was like, whoa! She's like thinking about retiring! That's an interesting thing. When you look at the number one person in the division, which is clearly Ronda, who's made... I think she made like $6 million last year or $7 million—something [ __ ] crazy like that!

And that's in fighting! Forget about her all these ads she's doing! She's in a million different [ __ ] commercials! I mean, she's probably made that much on top of that with just ads and endorsements! And movies!

She's done two big movies! She's making [ __ ] truckloads of money right, and then there's Misha Tate, who's the number two girl in the division, arguably!

I mean, even though she's lost to Ronda three times, she's the number two girl in the division, right?

Yes! And how much you think she makes? I mean, it's a fraction! A small fraction!

It's not like she's not hot! She's hot as [ __ ] right! She's got a beautiful body! Great ass! Uh, sorry I said that, sorry Misha. All due respect, she's a great fighter too! She's very tough!

I believe there's photos of you at the weigh-in, possibly? I don't know if it was her! I think I was looking at Rhonda's ass!

Yeah, I've looked at a few asses— they're in their underwear, feet away from me! Not being a creep! Just doing my job!

Um, but you know, Misha probably makes a very, very small fraction of what Ronda makes! And she's elite! She's an outstanding fighter! She's tough as [ __ ] man!

And you know, people love her! It's weird!

Yeah, oh, I believe she’s into the movies now as well! Her, Cyborg and Holly did that last one on her Instagram and Facebook.

Yeah, but who's making that movie? Who's going to see that movie? And what is that movie? That movie, some [ __ ] 3:00 a.m. Cinemax [ __ ] zombie movie with kicking zombies' heads off or something, you know? It's like people—when people tell me, "Oh, he's doing movies now," I'm like, "Look, I know a lot of people doing movies!"

Like, what kind of movie, you know? Are they doing a B.J. Penn-type movie? B.J. Penn did a couple of movies and, um, yeah.

Well, even Gina Carano's done, like, she's done some big movies, and she did that one movie—what was that movie that she was a star? Haywire?

Nobody saw it! And then because nobody saw it, nobody gave a [ __ ] about it; it faded away!

And then you don't hear about her as a movie star anymore! I mean, Misha was that close, that close to being this runaway trained movie star!

You know, there's Fast and Furious! And there's all—no, Fast and Furious was she—Ronda was in that! Ronda was in one of those, right?

And then also Deadpool! I think that one's coming out! She's got a major part as—hopefully that might skyrocket her career!

Oh, the ads for the, uh, previews for Deadpool look bad ass!

It's a tough... my point is it's a tough racket! The movie business is a tough racket!

Yeah, yeah! I remember Frank Shamrock saying to me once, like, he said he was going to get into acting—he said, "I'm going to take over the world of acting!"

Same way I took over the world of... I'm like, "Good luck with that, dude!" You can't even control that! It's not like you can run Hills better than anybody and kick people's asses!

When you're fighting, you can be undeniable! You know, you're fighting! They lock you in that octagon or you hop over the ropes into that ring, and when the referee says fight, there's nothing that can save that guy! You storm after him and knock him out, and you're the [ __ ] king!

But in the world of acting, my God! There's so many hoops and ladders and so much [ __ ]! It doesn't matter if you're the best coming from you, you know exactly what's going on! You sort of... and I've done some acting, but I've been very lucky to be on the outside of it all looking in!

You know, because I was always a stand-up comic! I always had, like, that as my real career! And then this acting thing was something I did when they offered me money to do it!

It's not something I really chased after that much! And so when I watched other people that were chasing after it, I got to see, like, the psychological aspect of it! You see people kissing people's asses because you want everybody to like you because you want to get cast in these movies!

And you got to make friends with the right social circles! You got to be on the right red carpets! You got to support the right causes! You have to have the right political affiliations! It's a mess, man! It's a [ __ ] mess!

You can't say anything controversial! Can't do anything too [ __ ] up! You know, there's certain things you can get away with as an athlete that you could never get away with as an actor! Because if you did, they would just write... unless